@dreamer_ IMHO MiP watches amongst outdoor enthusiasts are preferred and amoled is a niche. Even though V2 screen works great for me and I like it very much, I certainly prefer MiP. I guess Coros will come up with an MIP Vertix 4, so if Suunto decides to put an end to Verticals with MIP, they’ll lose sales. The only thing I like better in my Garmin are maps and navigation. But Fenix series prices have gone through the freaking roof and I’m not sure whether I’d buy another Garmin again. Their devices are way too overpriced and I don’t need the Mickey Mouse metrics they feed me. Besides, my verticals have better GPS and elevation tracking than my Fenix. I have grown to trust Garmin less and less.

Thanks both of you for explaining! The requirement that you need to keep the watch aligned with the direction of travel was unknown to me (I never use the maps) On a road bike, I usually check the watch at a 30 degree angle to the direction I’m going so I either need to change that habit or make the correction in my head Either way I am happy that I now know how it works!

@runyx17 I’m not sure that’s the case. There was a glitch with the Suunto 9 Peak Pro a while back that was fixed via a quick update within a month.

@duffman19 So I tried first with a short stretching activity. Delete from SA, log out of SA, login again, resync and it showed the activity again. However. doing so with my long run, seems to not resync although it’s still on the watch (at least showing on the watch. I noticed. Daily HR, steps, resources are all in SA including the activity time. But GPS and activity stats are not. Would be great to ad Fit/json manualy Back into SA. That’s possible? Is it possible json and fit files are deleted if you uninstal SA?? Would be an explanation I can’t find them on my phone anymore.

@duffman19 Thank you, curiously, the navigation still worked exactly. But it makes sense what you explain. Thank you

@Danny-poleg Ich habe mit der Race 2 auch 2 Abstürze gehabt und fehlerhafte Workouts mit fehlenden HF Daten. Ich bin jetzt auf die April Firmware zurück. Damit gibts keine Probleme. Suunto, wo ist der Hotfix?

Regarding step counts, I still think for those who are highly focused on that, getting a waist-based model will likely give better overall accuracy that the majority of watches and is fairly inexpensive. Here’s a quick article to show the style I mean: https://www.verywellfit.com/best-pedometers-4159148 I know people who do activities like knitting or drumming that would get a lot of “accidental steps” if relying on any wrist based model. My own attitude is simpler — steps cannot tell me intensity of effort. The other day I did 5082 steps for one activity, which was a walking effort of 5km with average HR of 92bpm. Then another day I did another 5km effort doing track intervals (100m x 10) which was less steps 4461 but higher average HR of 154bpm. If I were only looking at steps, the second effort seems “weaker” which is the complete opposite result of my own analysis. Of course, the walking session was good for recovery, while the intervals was just a general intense workout. And today we have thunderstorms outside, and while I’ll get a decent amount of steps just going through the house, my primary workout today will be a rowing session which technically is “zero steps,” and yesterday was an hour long cycling workout that also was “zero steps”. Now I know in the Polar ecosystem they have a feature where they can give you “step equivalents” for things like that, but I dislike that system.

@runyx17 said: Reading about these problems here makes me worry if it will ever be fixed at all. I think the main problem is that Suunto navigation doesn’t simply guide you though a planned route. It continuously guesses where you want to go based on your current position. I think, internally there are invisible “checkpoints” along the route that you must pass for the watch to determine that you are on-route. Based on what the checkpoint that you passed last it draws the light blue arrows pointing you toward the next checkpoint. The reason I think it works this way is because these light blue arrows sometimes lag behind and then jump forward. In my example the route goes over itself twice for a short distance so there would be two checkpoints from different distances. When the watch sees the one from the later distance, it probably decides at that point that I have already skipped a part of the route, so it simply shows the light blue arrows based on where it thinks I am and not where I should be according to the planned route. This is a subtle but important difference. And because of that sometimes it randomly reverses the direction. There may be a momentary GPS glitch, and it readily accepts that, assuming that I started moving in the opposite direction. Also, Garmin handles routes where Suunto fails much better. I know exactly how Garmin navigation works because I helped them to fix a bug a few years ago where Garmin navigation would repeatedly go off route at sharp nearly 180 degree turns. The way I helped is that I kept hammering them with bug reports on their forum and produced simple and detailed repro steps. I was in communication with one of their reps and and eventually they had fixed it. Garmin has similar invisible “checkpoints” on route that I described above - perhaps every 30-50 meters or so. While you are on route you are expected to move towards the next checkpoint. Once you passed that - move to the next one, and so on. Garmin navigation makes sure you stick to the route as a sequence of these checkpoints in the exact order as planned. If course, if you intentionally skipped a part of the route it would tell you that you went off route. Then it would recapture you later on the route. But it doesn’t do that proactively and without letting the user know as Suunto does it. And this is exactly how Suunto should do that. Even if there is still an auto-reversal logic, you should do the best effort to stick to the original route, and only when that fails, show the notification, and only then after some distance of going off the original route, try to recapture it. That would give user a chance to correct themselves if they mistakenly went off route or cut a part of it, or reversed direction.

I’ve noticed that significant battery drain is caused by the 24/7 heart rate monitoring mode. Previously, the watch would measure heart rate every 3 to 5 minutes; however, after the software update, it monitors continuously—24/7—without any breaks unless you take the watch off your wrist.

@snow had it from May last year & until June this year it was fab, no issues whatsoever. Just since June the issues seem to have been. Updated the app, software, etc, used S+, not used S+, but seems no pattern

@2b2bff I was wondering the same thing. Either two sensors, or mediocre altitude measurement compared to other watches.

@Egika Yes, I reset the watch manually yesterday. Reboots are not very frequent - once a 2 to 3 days. It has never happened during the exercise with two S+ on. Thanks, for the tip on independent mobile notifications as I have seen that mobile notifications during exercise were on.

@André-Faria it was Bluetooth, I have no USB-c to A converter so far.

@Tamás-Tompa, it wasn’t done in past years, I really doubt that they’ll do something now.

@Brad_Olwin I always run 2-3 days after races. Only for all-out Marathons, I take two weeks off. My HR is not really influenced by these races. It is not more than the usual ±4 bpms during easy runs at aerobic LT. Of course my legs are tired and the muscular effort feels way higher for the pace but HR is the same for the speed that I run. I would be then not able to run for long time at my LT but due to fatigue. HR is then still in the expected corridor for that pace. Only experienced strong deviations of LT HR at return to sport after stronger infections like COVID and always the first 3 days of winter training camp on the canarien islands. There my body is always completely overwhelmed by the sudden 25°C temperature difference. SZ though told me so many times, I would be way above or below my threshold even though RPE, HR, and pace was exactly as expected. During the training camp SZ always told me that my Real-Time effort should be way higher. No way that I could ever run under that sudden higher temps at that HR which was close to my 1k all-out HR. Real-Time effort does not work at all for me, while average reported thresholds over more than hundred activities come close.

@Squirrel with a new route, or the same as last week?

@Mff73 Thanks, I’ll test it again. With every long press I should come back a view. Understood! As with Maps Zoom . But in fact I always came back a level but never again to the initial overview of the complete altitude curve of the complete route.

@johann.fuehrer that’s what I said: Suunto App has to be running that way to be paged by the watch. Same with Garmin Connect BTW…

@Klaas Can you upload the dives log file (json) to Claude AI and ask Claude the simple question why the algorithm deviation occurred? Can you let us know the response?