First questions about the Race 2

dreamer_

Hi,

I have been a Vertical and a Race user (both Steel and Titanium) in the past and I’m very interested in the Race 2. I have seen some reviews and there’s a very big improvement in the screen and the HR sensor, and I’d like to give it a try (I’m now using an Epix Pro Gen 2, and it’s true the maps are laggy in the Epix (which I don’t like) but the information there and things like the turn by turn is very well done). The thing is that I don’t need that much information at the end.

So I have some minor questions about some issues that had both the Race and the Vertical, I’m not able to find the answer.

Are turn by turn notifications working on routes where you are using the same route there and going back (using the same route, or just repeating only some parts of the same route in both directions)? In the past in that scenario, the notifications got mixed. I don’t know if this had been solved.
Are turn by turn notifications working by default on imported GPX tracks? (in the past the Komoot workaround did not work fine for me)
Is it possible to customize wake up alarms , let’s say one alarm on Monday, Wednesday and Fridays. Another alarm for tuesdays and thrusdays and another one for weekends? I work from home 2 days per week and in the past I needed to remember every day to change the alarms (there were only options from monday to fridays, and for weekends but It was not possible to customize alarms for this scenario of for people that works in shifts).
What about POIs? Not all, just very minor things is enough for me. I.E. Things like water fountains are really useful to see in the maps.
I also had some issues with the precision of the tracks in very hard conditions on mountain. But I see there are some firmware updates so I understand that was solved.

All the rest things I remember, seem solved. HR, multiple sensors of the same type, sleep,… many many things

I hope anyone can test these things and sorry for my bad english.

Thanks a lot. And very well done Suunto!!

isazi

@dreamer_ said in First questions about the Race 2:

Hi,

Are turn by turn notifications working on routes where you are using the same route there and going back (using the same route, or just repeating only some parts of the same route in both directions)? In the past in that scenario, the notifications got mixed. I don’t know if this had been solved.

Route in reverse should now work also with turn by turn notifications

Are turn by turn notifications working by default on imported GPX tracks? (in the past the Komoot workaround did not work fine for me)

Same as before

Is it possible to customize wake up alarms , let’s say one alarm on Monday, Wednesday and Fridays. Another alarm for tuesdays and thrusdays and another one for weekends? I work from home 2 days per week and in the past I needed to remember every day to change the alarms (there were only options from monday to fridays, and for weekends but It was not possible to customize alarms for this scenario of for people that works in shifts).

You can have multiple alarms but not select specific days

What about POIs? Not all, just very minor things is enough for me. I.E. Things like water fountains are really useful to see in the maps.

Always been there

dreamer_

@isazi thanks a lot!!! WoW!!

So the only missing thing is the wake up alarms. I hope you can push a little update for this. Think that is not good at all for the user to remember every day to change the wake up alarm in the scenarios I explained. I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of people like me that works several days from home and others from the office (and the thing is the rest watches of the market has this solved). Don’t forget to fix it please. At the end this is also feedback for something that is still pending to fix

So everything else is now IN.

I also remember some precision issues with the GPS tracks when the GPS adquisition was lost multiple times and during the time in the mountain. I totally understand this is fixed (it’s a while for that thing) but I wanted to comment because I’m seeing something similar in DesFIt’s review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0AnKvQaPOM (minute 16).

Thank you so much @isazi . Very happy with what Suunto has accomplished with the Race 2. Very well done guys

Steven Hambleton

I made a feature request to have day selection for alarms.

One step further would be smart alarms which wake you when you’re in a light sleep cycle, closest to your alarm time.

duffman19

@dreamer_ The navigation and turn-by-turn function was changed a few updates ago (I’m guessing you currently don’t have a Suunto watch?). Hard to say if it was an improvement or not. There had been some discussion regarding it. Maybe you can dig through the update posts to find some, but the gist is:

Turn notifications now occur only once at about 20 meters from the turn. This works well for slower activities like hiking, but is too short for faster ones like cycling or running.
Notifications now only show in the small “tooth” at the bottom of the screen. No more full-screen notifications.
On the map screen, the tooth will show the distance to the next waypoint or the end of the route. It is no longer possible to see the distance to the next turn.
There are still issues with auto-reversing when following an out-and-back route or one that doubles back on itself. There is a good discussion about that here - https://forum.suunto.com/topic/12994/suunto-navigation-tendency-to-auto-reverse-route-when-it-shouldn-t.-bug-or-misguided-feature
Imported GPX files still do not support turn-by-turn. You’ll need to create the routes in the Suunto app or link through Komoot (and maybe Strava? I’m not sure.).

If your primary concern is navigation, I don’t think you’ll see a huge improvement with the Race 2. It is currently running the same software as the rest of the lineup. It works well enough and the on-watch map experience is great, but there are still a few hiccups.

dreamer_

@duffman19 said in First questions about the Race 2:

@dreamer_ The navigation and turn-by-turn function was changed a few updates ago (I’m guessing you currently don’t have a Suunto watch?). Hard to say if it was an improvement or not. There had been some discussion regarding it. Maybe you can dig through the update posts to find some, but the gist is:

Turn notifications now occur only once at about 20 meters from the turn. This works well for slower activities like hiking, but is too short for faster ones like cycling or running.

Notifications now only show in the small “tooth” at the bottom of the screen. No more full-screen notifications.

On the map screen, the tooth will show the distance to the next waypoint or the end of the route. It is no longer possible to see the distance to the next turn.

There are still issues with auto-reversing when following an out-and-back route or one that doubles back on itself. There is a good discussion about that here - https://forum.suunto.com/topic/12994/suunto-navigation-tendency-to-auto-reverse-route-when-it-shouldn-t.-bug-or-misguided-feature

Imported GPX files still do not support turn-by-turn. You’ll need to create the routes in the Suunto app or link through Komoot (and maybe Strava? I’m not sure.).

If your primary concern is navigation, I don’t think you’ll see a huge improvement with the Race 2. It is currently running the same software as the rest of the lineup. It works well enough and the on-watch map experience is great, but there are still a few hiccups.

Thanks a lot for the detailed info. This is a very valuable feedback for Suunto. Someone should have a look at all these things, since are very important specially now. So the navigation issues I was pointing seem that are still there.

dreamer_

@Steven-Hambleton said in First questions about the Race 2:

I made a feature request to have day selection for alarms.

One step further would be smart alarms which wake you when you’re in a light sleep cycle, closest to your alarm time.

Thanks @Steven-Hambleton !!

Tomas5

@isazi said in First questions about the Race 2:

What about POIs? Not all, just very minor things is enough for me. I.E. Things like water fountains are really useful to see in the maps.

Always been there

I think he talks about POIs build into maps by default. Not POIs you can create yourself. Something like garmin where you can see multiple type of interest points in maps directly on watch without need to create them manually.

dreamer_

@Tomas5 That’s right. In Garmin I see the POIs without setting anything. I don’t care much about this because you can set them but is sometimes useful . I.e when you are running in the mountain and you find water fountains, or if you get injured and don’t have your phone with you…But nothing more that some basic POIs. There are some interesting use cases. I’d not want to have a saturated map with lots of things like actual is happening with Garmin. Just only the very basic things like those examples

Brad_Olwin

@dreamer_ If you want routable maps your only options are an Apple Watch or Garmin. None of the other brands offer routable maps that I am aware of.

duffman19

@Brad_Olwin Don’t think @dreamer_ is talking about routable maps, but rather having POIs built into the on-watch map, like stated above. Polar and Coros have this, with town names, street and path labels, peak locations, and the like. These simple markers can be quite handy. Not unreasonable to think this might come to Suunto one day.

dreamer_

@duffman19 Amazfit does also also have POIs by default. You can see them in the T-rex 3. You don’t need to set anything. They are just there.

If Polar and Coros do also have them, Suunto should. I don’t find this thing as something important but It is something to have a look at. Just some basic POIs at least, that should be enough.

The turn by turn notifications in all the explained scenarios are also working in other non Garmin watches (i.e. tested myself in the T-rex 3 sharing parts of the route in different directions with the same way out and back route, and even in imported gpx tracks). You don’t need to do anything. Everything just works in that watch.

Nobody is asking for routable maps. In fact I don’t like how laggy are those maps in Garmin and they look something of the past. But I do find very important the things I asked and @duffman19 answered so nicely. Because I do a lot of mountainering and I consider Suunto’s watches done for the mountains.

I expected these things to be fixed. I think this is nice feedback now at this moment. That doesn’t mean that this is not the best Suunto watch ever, because It is. I like it a lot.

The screen looks incredible, the fixed HR, the new legs design (I had issues with my wrist bone and the Race), the new charger so premium, and the general build. It looks like a very premium watch and this should be said.

But if there are those software things yet, then fix them guys, please. This watch is very near to be the first, and for the very first time. You are doing an almost perfect work, make It perfect.
Fix just those navigation and alarm software things and we’ll have the best watch of the market. And at a reasonable price

mountain_erin

I’m on Day 2 of the Suunto Race 2 (I’ve been using Garmin Forerunner products since ~2009, currently have the 965)

Still trying to evaluate data quality, but the UI/UX is seriously lacking and this might me a deal breaker for me. Wondering if some of you all can help me with some quirks I’ve already found.

MTB data seemed in line with Garmin
Pool swim was not good. It missed a length in my warmup (I do a mix of strokes). And it missed my kick set. There’s no workaround like with Garmin (i.e. drill mode). Yeah, I can go into the app later and correct it, but if I sync the watch to TP/Strava then I have to correct data multiple places

The phone message notification beep is driving me bonkers. There’s no way to mute the beep specific to notifications. (Garmin sends me the notifications, flashes the watch screen, allows me to see notifications through the watch menu, but I can silence the alerts). The only way to keep the watch silent is to put it in Do Not Disturb, which then means I have more fidgeting with the watch to use it… but it stays silent.

I wish there was a way to organize activities by category or in a way that makes sense to me, instead of it just being kinda random. And I wish there were ways to remove those activities from the menu (I selected “mermaiding out of curiosity and now I can’t get rid of it)

DND mode is annoying b/c there’s no way to program the watch so it automatically goes to DND. I have my Garmin programmed for DND at 9 PM until 8 AM and it just does it. Suunto…. I have to click on 2 menus to engage DND… not to mention having to remember to do this nightly. I like getting notifications on my watch for phone messages (it’s handy when I wander away from my desk/phone) but I’m going to be pissed when I forget the DND setting and a beep wakes me up.

Alarms – again, either all days, single use, or weekdays. I like being able to set an alarm M-W-F for my swims (I can do this on Garmin). So I have to remember to set or disable the alarm daily to customize it for a specific schedule

And the scary thing I found today…. Scrolling through the Activities menu. I saw my data (all good) and scrolled down and saw anyone who has their data public in my area also showing. And the app defaults to “see all”. Also, there’s no way to hide start/end points like with Strava. (I know, these people may just not care, or realize that this is dangerous…. but damn).

Watch seems fine but the user interface design is just bad.

Tomas5

@mountain_erin

Notification beep can’t be customized if i am not mistaken.

Activities are ordered by last usage not by random. In Suunto App in sports mode customization you can remove mermaiding if you don’t want it. Than it will disapear from your list but you can still add it again like first time.

Section 6.10 of user manual:
Automatic Do Not Disturb mode
You can use the auto Do Not Disturb setting to automatically enable Do Not Disturb mode
while you sleep. It require sleep tracking enabled i think.

Alarms - it would be nice to be able set alarm for specific days of week only. Maybe write suunto support with feature request but good luck with that.

At least you can change privacy of all activities at one click from Suunto App. And yes privacy zones would be great but if you choose privacy to followers only. And adds only people you know they probably know your adress anyway.

Joaquin

@dreamer_ You have all the Spanish reviews saying that the GPS is great, in an area closer to your location, Spain, just check them out

Correrunamaraton, the Spanish DC Rainmaker:

“Suunto Race 2 utiliza el mismo chipset Sony que las versiones anteriores, y no creo que a Suunto se les haya olvidado cómo diseñar antenas. Así que podemos dar por cerrado el capítulo de recepción de satélite con un sobresaliente”

https://www.correrunamaraton.com/suunto-race-2/

https://youtu.be/d9N5rhLioZE?si=TNcztZaUMdMKmNyz

https://youtu.be/7SNCyUenFG8?si=exvXxhkl5SGebU5s

https://youtu.be/zvhsH2sfwaY?si=oIO1O6nu7Qp_LhDj

https://youtu.be/QY9S4uIzRSY?si=LdaWpgWW4JzrD0YG

dreamer_

@Joaquin thanks a lot for all these reviews. I really appreciate your effort finding all the reviews. I already knew about Eduardo’s reviews, I think he is one of the best reviewers in fact. And a very honest guy.
But I also think his profile is more related to triathlon (I also do triathlon but I’m now more focused in the mountains). So his reviews are nice but I need something more focused to the mountains and he does not cover that. Answers to things like the things I asked and @duffman19 kindly answered so nice.

And I already knew about the still navigation pending issues, but I hoped they where already fixed, since it’s a lot I knew about them.
Those things were happening in my Race 1 watches (Titanium and steel) and my Vertical Titanium watch.
No reviewer is talking about these things I were asking. And I know about them because I do a lot of mountainering. Btw, as said, the T-rex 3 has solved all those things. Is not about Garmin’s routeable maps.

The thing is in a trail running race It is sometimes very common to repeat parts of the track in different directions. That means that Suunto’s notifications are not working in those scenarios (but do work in Garmin and Amazfit)

Regarding navigation, there are other interesting things I didn’t mention and Suunto does not have (as said, I do a lot of mountainering and I know “something” about navigation that many reviewers don’t).

I. E. :

When you go on a route with turn-by-turn notifications and say, well I do have enough, I’m going back, Garmin does already know that. The watch already says, hey you are out of the route and a bit later is giving you the way back notifications. Even if you have not completed the way out. Amazfit as far as I know, does this fine either. The algorythm of the watch does know that you are returning the track and It reverses the indications so the indications are fine for you.
There are more things like notification remainders for TBT or even things like roundabouts notifications and reminders (yes, in an ultra trail race many times you see villages roundabouts). Those notifications are 2 or even 3 times in that second scenario. Or notifications to just go straight on an intersection and the 2 reminders.

I’m also worried about the GPS in very hard conditions. That’s why I consider DesFIt’s video very important (minute 16). In fact I’m really surprised because it’s like the issue is still there. I have tracks (but are from near a year ago and that’s why I was asking) where Suunto’s GNSS is not as good BUT only when the GNSS adquisition is lost many times and during a lot of time. That happened for me in tracks where there’s deep forest. If you look at @dcrainmaker’s review you can also see slightly deviations that Garmin does not have. And one very bad open water track, where I think the issue is there, and It seems related to the watch losing the GNSS many times. The algorythms in those scenarios are not that good with the tracks. What happens when you go with the watch to the mountains when the GNSS adquisition is lost many times during the time and you compare that track with Garmin and / or even Amazfit? There’s still something here for sure. Have a look again also at DesFIt’s video in that scenario with those big buildings.
So this issue means at the end that the total distances are wrong. This scenario means tracks that very few reviewers do and during a while.

Joaquin

@dreamer_
⸻

Suunto has already solved the reversed route scenario. If you turn back, after around 200 meters the watch automatically adapts turn-by-turn notifications and Climb Guidance to the new direction. This has been in place for more than a year now.

Regarding GPS accuracy, it’s really on par with any top brand in the market. We haven’t detected systematic problems here. Please also keep in mind that DC’s skyscraper test environment is extremely sensitive, and results depend on small details such as the GPS assistance file from the provider, chipset conditions that day, or even wrist position. In those conditions you can “win” today and “lose” tomorrow without changing anything.

It’s also important to remember that in-depth reviews should ideally wait until August 27th at 10:00, when the final software with all optimizations and updates is released. All current reviews are based on beta software that is not fully optimized.

Finally, user experience will always depend heavily on the specific testing environment. For example, while you may find issues in your mountain use cases, The5krunner has rated our GPS as the most accurate in the market. The bottom line is that all modern dual-band GPS devices deliver excellent accuracy and are more than sufficient for 99% of people.

SergioB

@Joaquin said in First questions about the Race 2:

@dreamer_
⸻

Suunto has already solved the reversed route scenario. If you turn back, after around 200 meters the watch automatically adapts turn-by-turn notifications and Climb Guidance to the new direction. This has been in place for more than a year now.

This is true with turn by turn notifications, but not for Climb Guidance V1. (I didn’t have the chance yet to test Climb Guidance V2)

If you turn back, Climb Guidance V1 do not reverse on the main altitude profile, only in the zoomed segment. This results in having a data screen that shows you being eg in a red segment uphill, and then you zoom and find yourself in a green downhill.

Joaquin

@SergioB Yes, it does, but maybe not exactly as you expect. When you reverse direction, the altitude profile also flips, so the profile shifts to the left, starting again from the beginning (as you can see in the picture).

The colors on the main altitude profile do not change, but you can clearly see if you are going up or down just by looking at the profile itself. At the same time, the sections adapt and show the correct color according to the new direction.

Climb Guidance v2 is different, because the purpose there was to personalize sections based on the direction and user-created waypoints. That’s why in this case the profile only changes direction, not the colors.

For case 1, we are aware of this, and hopefully in the future we can make the main altitude profile colors also change when reversing direction, since that would be more intuitive.

dreamer_

@Joaquin please, read @duffman19 's posts.

Auto-reverse function was implemented but It is not solved. So work has been done but It is not solved.
There are not TBT notifications on imported GPX tracks (this is very important when you import a race track)
There are not POIs by default, street names,… I don’t find this very important, but all are missing too.
And the alarms thing is still missing. That means that almost everything is like It was before. There’s some work but It is not enough at all (regarding about these things)

About the overall GNSS accuracy It was very good for me but there was a BUT. But as said, please read It further Joaquin. I’m not speaking about an overall GNSS accuracy scenario, but only about a very specific one (that is very important for mountainering)

That BUT was only when the GNSS adquisition was lost many times and during an important time. That’s why I’m saying DesFIt’s video is so important, when he tests the watch in those big buildings. That scenario matches the super bad tracks in open water of some reviewers when you lost the GNSS many many times and during a lot of time (and a time that can be more in one reviewer than other one).

As said, this was also happening for me in deep forest but it’s a while from that. That second part is true. But I’m really surprised to see bad tracks again, because that issue was there before. The thing is that very very few reviewers do those kind of specific tests but I faced that . What I’m explaining and what you see in those tracks I’m talking about is very valuable feedback that your developers and testers should keep in mind. Please talk It internally but have a good look at this thing because in the past there was something there and (looking at those tracks) It seems that It is still something there, for sure.

Speak internally with your developers and testers that, just that. This is feedback for something to look at. You ha e the tracks, they should be looked at.
It is important once we see the bad open water tracks (again as many many times) and that very bad track in those big buildings. This issue has been there in the past. DCR speaks many many times about this in openwater in fact.