The Race is nice, but I’m still holding on to my Vertical

@Egika said in The Race is nice, but I’m still holding on to my Vertical:

@BrunoH yes, quite some users had screen burn issues. Suunto must have replaced a lot of screens…
I rather guess they learned from this screen-wise and don’t want to make this happen again…

I remember seeing a lot of that on Suunto 7 but don’t recall seeing that on the garmin (I searched a bit before buying the 965), so maybe it was just a screen supplier issue. Let’s hope for the race it’s a different one and no issues

General_Witt

@e6321 If Race would have been manufactured in Finland 100% with green energy and the price was 650 euro I’d still choose the Race.
I’m not happy about the manufacturing in China, but the value is just too solid not to buy it based on this fact.

Brad_Olwin

@TrailEyes said in The Race is nice, but I’m still holding on to my Vertical:

@Brad_Olwin I know you’ve said in the past that you were even partial to the 9PP over the Vertical in some instances, so where does the Race fit in with your broader use-case heirarchy and is the 9PP still relevant for your situations?

My perfect watch would be a 9PP size or just a little bit larger, if the bezel is kept at the same size then give it solar, update the screen to the brightest MIP, a bit longer battery life and maps.

I like the Race a lot and great for running and racing…but for SkiMo, Touring and SkiMo racing I think the crown will be less useful as when strapped over a coat it may move when you do not want it to, it will be difficult to zoom in and out of maps with gloves. With snow and strong sun the MIP display is likely better.

If I had to choose one and only one Suunto, I would probably go with the Vertical. If two, the Vertical and the 9PP probably. Hope that answers your question.

Todd Danielczyk

For me I prefer the readability of MIPS in direct sunlight as well as having less power consumption versus AMOLED.

When am I using maps? Mostly on a sunny day outdoors. Checking heart rate while biking? Outdoors. Readability at a glance is ideal and even in bad overcast with brightness turned up it’s still quite good albeit slightly washed out. Not having anxiety of running out of power on the trail? Priceless…

Lifting weights or rowing is indoors but I usually have the area flooded with light so it becomes a non issue.

I do understand the appeal of AMOLED and why people would gravitate to it but there is also people that prefer MIPS for what it offers. The camps are divided and I appreciate that Suunto offers both with premium builds for both (not cheap materials on one versus the other).

Do I feel one is superior to the other? Well it depends on how you will use the watch and for my case MIPS wins. If I were using it mostly indoors for notifications then I would probably go with AMOLED. I think that has always been the appeal of the Apple or Samsung watches for their users as they use it mostly for the smart watch aspect and to a lesser extent the lifestyle part. I honestly think that’s where Suunto leans into heavy; the lifestyle. They get us outdoors folks!

Stefan Kersting

@Brad_Olwin interesting info about the watches. But it confirms that I did a good choice with the vertical because I’m using my watches mainly for outdoor activities

Martin Vrska

@Andrew_ I switched to Vertical (without solar) after six months of using the S9PP and I am very satisfied. I’m looking forward to the new FW correcting errors - for me mainly errors in the recovery calculation, system acceleration and certainly a lot of new things from Race. I am primarily a runner and cyclist, so Vertical suits me perfectly.

TrailEyes

@Brad_Olwin said in The Race is nice, but I’m still holding on to my Vertical:

Hope that answers your question.

Yes, for sure, thanks! I’m just always curious how people’s preferences line up with their watch of choice. I appreciate you sharing your perspective!

jjorgemoura

I have a S9B and I’ve been thinking in updating it to a SV. However, since yesterday, I’m not so sure.
My main activity is Running/TrailRunning, on distances up to 100 miles, thus, a device with a long autonomy while on full GPS precision is required. In terms of use, I would say the split between use under the sunlight vs night + indoors is 50/50.

The Race, is a very intriguing device though.

From what I can see in terms of specs, features, quality, and considering that the Vertical will get all the same software features (maybe except the ones highlighted on’s DC Rainmaker’s video) as the Race, I’m considering the Race and the Vertical as twin brothers with the screen being the only difference (yeah, I’m know about the Digital Crown).
Two almost identical watches but one with a MIP panel and the other with AMOLED, in line with what Garmin has with the Fenix and Epix lines.

So far so good. The annoying thing comes from the price segment and the overall positioning of the Race.

Until now, my belief has been that an AMOLED watch is more premium or high end than a MIP one. I might be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but I think the production cost of an AMOLED panel is more expensive than a MIP panel, considering the same panel size.

I can see a strategy of, at least, aligned both devices in terms of pricing (unlike Garmin with its Fenix/Epix), but not in launching an AMOLED version with such a price drop, compared to the MIP version. The argument that the Vertical has more battery is false. They seem to have exactly the same battery in terms of dimension and capacity, therefore, the same production cost. The thing is, the AMOLED panel drains the battery faster.

Based on the UK prices, analysing the prices of the Vertical and Race, we can observe that:

Titanium has a 90£ price tag (Race is 390/480 )
Solar has a 90£ price tag (Vertical is 545/725)

If, very optimistically, I considerer the cost production of an AMOLED panel the same as a MIP panel, then:

Made in Finland has a 155£ price tag (Race 390£ vs Vertical 545£, Race T 480£ vs Vertical T 725£)
- I’m considering the production cost of the Digital Crown to be the same as a simple button, even if I think it’s more expensive
- There is no information against considering that the batteries of both devices are the same (dimension, capacity and output), thus, same production cost.

It seems Suunto is very confident in these 2 devices and decided to attack the market very aggressively. As someone said, Vertical’s role was to stop the user base exodus and Race’s role is to bring some of the user base back. And Suunto is ready to face and win that “Race” (btw, I dislike the name “Race” but probably the reason behind it is exactly a marketing message).

Some further questions/comments:

Thought the message was that the mid/high-end devices would be “Made in Finland” while the more lower/mid-end devices would be “Made in China”. Does this mean the Race is considered a lower/mid-end device or is the “Made in Finland” argument history?
Even if some people prefer the MIP panel, will they be willing to pay that, at least, 155£ price tag for the “Made in Finland” tag?
Will Suunto launch, in a few months, a Race “Made in Finland”, at the same price of the Vertical?
Will Suunto reduce the price of the Vertical?

My main point is, how will the market perceive both devices?

Until now, AMOLED seemed more premium than MIP. The Race has AMOLED and a Digital Crown (making it a 5 button device because the DC covers the 3 button design of the Vertical, which brings benefits). However, it costs 155£ less. It’s a significant difference. Basically is a Vertical with AMOLED and the Digital Crown with 30% discount.
Probably a significant percentage of the market doesn’t care or even is aware of these things (AMOLED vs MIP, if battery lasts 40h vs 60h, 12 vs 30 days, where it’s made, the Sustainability commitment, etc), they just want a device as cheaper as possible, Personally, it seems messy and, depending on future communications and/or releases from Suunto, it might affect my confidence, engagement and trust on Suunto.

I’m still favouring the Vertical over the Race due to the longer autonomy and the “Made in Finland”, but I’m searching for a pre-loved/refurbished device. Even more sustainable than the “Made in Finland” thing is to buy something that already exists and extending its life.

P.S. - Haven’t checked if the prices in EUR/USD also reflect this pattern.

TrailEyes

@jjorgemoura said in The Race is nice, but I’m still holding on to my Vertical:

Until now, my belief has been that an AMOLED watch is more premium or high end than a MIP one. I might be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but I think the production cost of an AMOLED panel is more expensive than a MIP panel, considering the same panel size.

Determining what’s more premium may depend a lot on the customer base. I prefer a watch that reads better on trails and under the sun, not necessarily one better indoors, so MIPS would be more entising for me.

I’ve long used the comparison between a Toyota Tacoma and an Audi RS. I’ll be more willing to fork over good money for a Tacoma because it’s better suited for my life than I would an Audi. Heck, offer me an Audi for the bargain basement price of $50,000, and I’ll still not bite. Literally have zero interest.

All that said, it’s fair to perceive that AMOLED displays cost more to produce, though I don’t have a knowledge about that. But it may not be apples to apples if China AMOLED screens can be made more cheaply than European MIPS displays – material availability and labor affect that scale. But you’ve theorized a value benchmark on “Made in Finland,” so you probably recognize that.

One thing I’d ask is how much would folks consider AMOLED the premium if Garmin didn’t set up their pricing/marketing that way from the start. Does a less expensive AMOLED only seem strange because we’re used to the bar Garmin created?

Jamie BG

@TrailEyes
I don’t think its necessarily the £100 sort of premium that garmin adds to it, but its definitely costs especially if you are using good amoled screens (i.e. samsung etc screens). You just have to look at the host of super cheap watches out there, the vast majority of them don’t use AMOLED and those that do the amoled spec is significanlly less than what samsung etc offer.

jjpaz

@jjorgemoura Does Suunto Race have the same processor/memory than Suunto Vertical?
I have read that Race has increased memory (internal memory, not external for map storage).

Brad_Olwin

@jjpaz Those changes come with firmware and while on the Race will come to the Vertical.

Tieutieu

@Brad_Olwin said in The Race is nice, but I’m still holding on to my Vertical:

@jjpaz Those changes come with firmware and while on the Race will come to the Vertical.

@Brad_Olwin what do you mean ? Does you mean that Vertical and Race share the same HW except screen (amount of “flash” memory…) but that it is actually limited by current SV firmware ?

suzzlo

@Tieutieu Not sure about HW differences, but at least:

NFC is present on Race
Steel Race has 16GB of internal storage

BR

Brad_Olwin

@Tieutieu Some of the space for maps can be used for storage of activities or future firmware.

andyanderso

@Brad_Olwin - I agree with you that a 9PP with increased battery life, maps, and solar would be a great addition to the Suunto stable. Maybe someday soon we will get a small SV or SR or a 9PP with maps. Anyone heard any rumors?

One other thought about the AMOLED on the SR vs MIPS screen on the SV is the resolution. It seems like the increased resolution on the AMOLED screen would make the maps easier to read. What are people’s thought’s on map readability between the two?

Egika

@andyanderso resolution does not make such a big difference IMHO, it is more the color rendering that makes maps on Race more pleasing for the eye

andyanderso

@Egika Thanks for those photos. The AMOLED maps are much easier to read!

fleblanc01

@suzzlo Sorry for my ignorance but what is NFC ? What are the possibilities with this chip ?

Martin Vrska

@Egika I respect the quality of the amoled display, but the photography is not realistic. I definitely don’t have such a blue map on my Vertical.