What do you expect from the next update?
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@Egika said in What do you expect from the next update?:
@Frederick-Rochette you should actually not buy a product with the expectation of it to one day become what you like it to be. Better buy what you want today, and regard every feature update as a free gift.
If you need music playback in your watch, better get one that has it.
This is a bit naive and short-sighted. There is no denying that Suunto watches are still far behind the market leaders.
Most people who buy Suunto watches give some time to the manufacturer to add some missing functions or improve the poorly designed/implemented ones.
If Suunto stops releasing improvements, it will lose the trust of even those who buy Suunto watches out of sentiment.I am leaving aside such obvious things as fixing many still unresolved problems with watches that have been on the market for over a year i. e. Vertical.
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@maszop my Vertical was the watch I wanted on day 1, that’s the reason I bought it. Everything else that came after is just a bonus. If you believe you can buy a product and wait for it to become something else, well, look naive in the dictionary.
Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti
Blog: isazi's home
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@Frederick-Rochette for the price of a watch you can expect a watch, and you got one. You probably even had a month under EU law to send it back for a full refund if you didn’t like it. If you wanted something else, why did you buy it? Luckily for you the market is full of watch manufacturers.
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@Frederick-Rochette I’ve never seen “2 years free updates” on any watch…so unfortunatly you’re expectations are not part of the inital deal. But most of recent suunto watches have received updates during more than 2 years.
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@Egika I totally agree. I want a sports watch band not stereo system.
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@maszop to be honest, putting ”improvements” in the watch is what’s making it more unreliable and less stable. Do we really need all these “improvements” or just wants them?
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@isazi said in What do you expect from the next update?:
@maszop my Vertical was the watch I wanted on day 1, that’s the reason I bought it. Everything else that came after is just a bonus. If you believe you can buy a product and wait for it to become something else, well, look naive in the dictionary.
It’s not naivety but experience. At least some Suunto customers (those who buy watches with their money) know that Suunto has always improved its watches over the years by releasing new software versions that add a lot of new functions. If Suunto stops doing this, many people will probably not buy a new Suunto watch.
Watch a random test on YouTube, e.g. Suunto Vertical from the time of its premiere. The software of this watch was terrible.
If it weren’t for the knowledge that Suunto will significantly improve it over time, probably only a few would buy it. -
I think there’s a few people in this forum that want a Suunto watch with Garmin functionality. Firstly, that may not be in Suuntos’ strategy at all, so buying the former and believing that it should (must?) become the latter is a misjudged purchase. Secondly, if Garmin functionality is required, then a better solution is to probably just buy the Garmin.
I have no axe to grind here: I have Polar, Suunto and Garmin and I like different aspects of each one. For me, there is no ‘perfect’ watch, so I’ll mix and match as required.
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@maszop first, I bought the watch with my own money, not sure what you’re implying but whatever.
Second, the Vertical was great on release day, and that the reason I bought it. Not need a reviewer to tell me what I should think, I’m old enough for that. -
@isazi I suggested a YouTube test so that everyone could remember how “great” the watch was during its premiere
especially its smooth interface and a lot of annoying problems solved over time
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I think there’s a difference between bug fixes and new features. I agree you should buy a watch that promises to deliver what you need at the time you buy it rather than hoping for the features you need to appear in the future. But if a watch promises features that then don’t quite work I think it entirely fair to expect the bugs to be fixed.
I also agree there’s no perfect watch and so any choice is going to be a compromise / trade off. So it may be best to say many Suunto owners buy their choice of watch because it covers all of their needs and many of their wants and then they are hopeful the remaining wants - the ones they compromised on - will be fulfilled in magical future updates
But, seriously, don’t buy any product that doesn’t cover your needs with the hope the missing functionality might appear in future - that way lies disappointment.
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@far-blue For this to happen, you need to offer optimal software on the day of release. Suunto can’t do this. Great hardware is accompanied by poor software that takes months or even years to improve (as in the case of Vertical).
Moreover, I will repeat once again, when someone buys a watch for their own money, they do not exchange it every now and then for another new model. He usually skips one or several newer models before buying a new one again.
Therefore, it is in the manufacturer’s interest to provide support for these few years before the customer decides to buy a new model again.
This is how loyalty and trust in the brand are built. This applies to the entire market, not just watches -
This is a good discussion, with insights on both sides of the argument. If I were to exaggerate one side of the argument- yes it is wrong to expect that Suunto will deliver functionality to get to the Garmin level over the lifetime of Vertical. Probably not happening, and music playback is likely a good example of a feature that will not ship (my personal opinion - I am sorry @Frederick-Rochette )
On the other hand, over the air updates exist in the industry and have two big benefits for the company: they can ship (stable but) partially finished software and start realizing revenue earlier. And two, continuous updates further create loyalty with customers that are less likely to switch watches during lifetime of those updates.
One example I want to contribute to the discussion is HRV measurement - if I remember correctly 9PP, Vertical and Race shipped with HRV capable sensor and it was clearly communicated in the specs of those watches, while the functionality to measure HRV was added in software later. Yes there were no hard promises, but the expectation was communicated well, understood by customers and Suunto delivered it via software later. I think this is example of what people talk about, not the music playback.
Another one that I’m personally stuck on is contour lines above 500m to realize potential of Vertical as an adventure watch, which is a regression and was promised to be fixed in a future update. Again, I reasonably trust and expect it will
With all that said, being happy and grateful for what we have and taking future updates as a positive surprise is definitely the best approach for living a happy life!!!
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@isazi said in What do you expect from the next update?:
@Frederick-Rochette oh poor us, a free firmware update is a few days late, let’s find out pitchforks and burn down Suunto
@Tieutieu said in What do you expect from the next update?:
@Frederick-Rochette I’ve never seen “2 years free updates” on any watch…so unfortunatly you’re expectations are not part of the inital deal. But most of recent suunto watches have received updates during more than 2 years.
Maybe I’m wrong, but in the last 10 years I’m pretty sure that I’ve never heard of firmware updates only under payment for something that is considered commercial…
So, what’s the point about highlighting that the update is free? As someone has said, as for now, it is expected that within the price of any device (smartphones, smartwatches, TV sets, etc.) some updates will be delivered. Otherwise, do we have to consider our watches as disposal? Ok, then every company should reduce the devices price since polymer moulding, CNC machining, GPS technology, electronics, etc. are nowadays mature technology.
I’m aware that the context is pretty different but, for example, Apple has released iOS 17 in 2023 and even 2018 Iphones were supported, without hailing as a miracle.
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@Matúš the “free” highlighting was not done by Suunto. This was a personal statement. And I think many of those devices cannot be compared. Smart phones, that are connected to the internet 24/7 need security updates if bugs are discovered.
Personally I would not put watches in the same category. I buy it with a feature set and that’s it.
The expectation of any feature added later is probably leading to frustration, if my beloved function is not coming.
As stated above: I would never buy a sports watch with the expectation that my favourite feature would be added via FW later. No idea if triathlon customisation will ever make it into Vertical or Race. If I need it, I have to look elsewhere. -
@Egika features updates yes, that’s nice to have. But once the are are bugs in basic features (presented as core features for that product) update is must to have. Otherwise we as customers could (and maybe should) ignore this product, which is fine.
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@thailon right!
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Oh, the drama.
The problem is bugs and quality of life vs the addition of new features. I’d argue that the former is essential to sustain certain product quality, but the latter is extra (or may become a standard if major market players decide so, as we’ve seen happened with barometer).
Now, I get it that S9PP was a proof of concept watch to a certain extent - a new hardware running a new OS / UI in an “old” case. But if I were to be stuck with the firmware available on the release date - that would be a very sluggish and unresponsive watch with a firmware in a strong beta stage at most.
It took approximately a year after the release to optimise the issues of a young firmware, which was quite a long time, considering the watch was already in the market.
However, after the Race was released - the general “feel” of the new UI seems pretty much established and not in need of any dramatic adjustments.
The fact that the majority of new features come down to 9PP is a welcome addition, but I also suspect it’s Suunto’s strategy to have a software as uniform as possible, so that potential buyers don’t have to dig into specifications and reviews too much and to actually have a line of products that are positioned in a certain feature set and an “era”.
The side effect to such strategy is that the new functionalities, developed for new watches, are also available with the older ones. This makes sense as it adds value to the product and is easier and cheaper to support from the software perspective if firmware from multiple units is as similar as possible (perhaps, all the functionalities are there but are just switched off by a flag if there’s no hardware support).
But I have no illusion that it’s because of aforementioned circumstances we’re getting new firmware with new features and not because the Suunto is exceptional in regards to taking care about its products and users and is willing to throw extra money to supporting i.e. 5 year old products out if its good heart.
The development for S9PP firmware may as well freeze tomorrow if a new line of devices appears and development would have to diverge too much between the devices in order to sustain it.
So don’t wait for a new firmware with superb new features as it may never come and is not given. Just use the watch as it was delivered on the first day, or get another one if there’s something impossible to overcome.
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Let’s divert a bit the conversation
Was there maybe some update to the APIs that the sync of the watch takes literally seconds? Is it only my ‘feeling’? Today I tried few times to sync and what used to be a bit longer process, now feels so quick. I even had to make sure that everything was synced since it felt quite fast
