What do you expect from the next update?
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I think there’s a difference between bug fixes and new features. I agree you should buy a watch that promises to deliver what you need at the time you buy it rather than hoping for the features you need to appear in the future. But if a watch promises features that then don’t quite work I think it entirely fair to expect the bugs to be fixed.
I also agree there’s no perfect watch and so any choice is going to be a compromise / trade off. So it may be best to say many Suunto owners buy their choice of watch because it covers all of their needs and many of their wants and then they are hopeful the remaining wants - the ones they compromised on - will be fulfilled in magical future updates
But, seriously, don’t buy any product that doesn’t cover your needs with the hope the missing functionality might appear in future - that way lies disappointment.
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@far-blue For this to happen, you need to offer optimal software on the day of release. Suunto can’t do this. Great hardware is accompanied by poor software that takes months or even years to improve (as in the case of Vertical).
Moreover, I will repeat once again, when someone buys a watch for their own money, they do not exchange it every now and then for another new model. He usually skips one or several newer models before buying a new one again.
Therefore, it is in the manufacturer’s interest to provide support for these few years before the customer decides to buy a new model again.
This is how loyalty and trust in the brand are built. This applies to the entire market, not just watches -
This is a good discussion, with insights on both sides of the argument. If I were to exaggerate one side of the argument- yes it is wrong to expect that Suunto will deliver functionality to get to the Garmin level over the lifetime of Vertical. Probably not happening, and music playback is likely a good example of a feature that will not ship (my personal opinion - I am sorry @Frederick-Rochette )
On the other hand, over the air updates exist in the industry and have two big benefits for the company: they can ship (stable but) partially finished software and start realizing revenue earlier. And two, continuous updates further create loyalty with customers that are less likely to switch watches during lifetime of those updates.
One example I want to contribute to the discussion is HRV measurement - if I remember correctly 9PP, Vertical and Race shipped with HRV capable sensor and it was clearly communicated in the specs of those watches, while the functionality to measure HRV was added in software later. Yes there were no hard promises, but the expectation was communicated well, understood by customers and Suunto delivered it via software later. I think this is example of what people talk about, not the music playback.
Another one that I’m personally stuck on is contour lines above 500m to realize potential of Vertical as an adventure watch, which is a regression and was promised to be fixed in a future update. Again, I reasonably trust and expect it will
With all that said, being happy and grateful for what we have and taking future updates as a positive surprise is definitely the best approach for living a happy life!!!
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@isazi said in What do you expect from the next update?:
@Frederick-Rochette oh poor us, a free firmware update is a few days late, let’s find out pitchforks and burn down Suunto
@Tieutieu said in What do you expect from the next update?:
@Frederick-Rochette I’ve never seen “2 years free updates” on any watch…so unfortunatly you’re expectations are not part of the inital deal. But most of recent suunto watches have received updates during more than 2 years.
Maybe I’m wrong, but in the last 10 years I’m pretty sure that I’ve never heard of firmware updates only under payment for something that is considered commercial…
So, what’s the point about highlighting that the update is free? As someone has said, as for now, it is expected that within the price of any device (smartphones, smartwatches, TV sets, etc.) some updates will be delivered. Otherwise, do we have to consider our watches as disposal? Ok, then every company should reduce the devices price since polymer moulding, CNC machining, GPS technology, electronics, etc. are nowadays mature technology.
I’m aware that the context is pretty different but, for example, Apple has released iOS 17 in 2023 and even 2018 Iphones were supported, without hailing as a miracle.
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@Matúš the “free” highlighting was not done by Suunto. This was a personal statement. And I think many of those devices cannot be compared. Smart phones, that are connected to the internet 24/7 need security updates if bugs are discovered.
Personally I would not put watches in the same category. I buy it with a feature set and that’s it.
The expectation of any feature added later is probably leading to frustration, if my beloved function is not coming.
As stated above: I would never buy a sports watch with the expectation that my favourite feature would be added via FW later. No idea if triathlon customisation will ever make it into Vertical or Race. If I need it, I have to look elsewhere. -
@Egika features updates yes, that’s nice to have. But once the are are bugs in basic features (presented as core features for that product) update is must to have. Otherwise we as customers could (and maybe should) ignore this product, which is fine.
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@thailon right!
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Oh, the drama.
The problem is bugs and quality of life vs the addition of new features. I’d argue that the former is essential to sustain certain product quality, but the latter is extra (or may become a standard if major market players decide so, as we’ve seen happened with barometer).
Now, I get it that S9PP was a proof of concept watch to a certain extent - a new hardware running a new OS / UI in an “old” case. But if I were to be stuck with the firmware available on the release date - that would be a very sluggish and unresponsive watch with a firmware in a strong beta stage at most.
It took approximately a year after the release to optimise the issues of a young firmware, which was quite a long time, considering the watch was already in the market.
However, after the Race was released - the general “feel” of the new UI seems pretty much established and not in need of any dramatic adjustments.
The fact that the majority of new features come down to 9PP is a welcome addition, but I also suspect it’s Suunto’s strategy to have a software as uniform as possible, so that potential buyers don’t have to dig into specifications and reviews too much and to actually have a line of products that are positioned in a certain feature set and an “era”.
The side effect to such strategy is that the new functionalities, developed for new watches, are also available with the older ones. This makes sense as it adds value to the product and is easier and cheaper to support from the software perspective if firmware from multiple units is as similar as possible (perhaps, all the functionalities are there but are just switched off by a flag if there’s no hardware support).
But I have no illusion that it’s because of aforementioned circumstances we’re getting new firmware with new features and not because the Suunto is exceptional in regards to taking care about its products and users and is willing to throw extra money to supporting i.e. 5 year old products out if its good heart.
The development for S9PP firmware may as well freeze tomorrow if a new line of devices appears and development would have to diverge too much between the devices in order to sustain it.
So don’t wait for a new firmware with superb new features as it may never come and is not given. Just use the watch as it was delivered on the first day, or get another one if there’s something impossible to overcome.
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Let’s divert a bit the conversation
Was there maybe some update to the APIs that the sync of the watch takes literally seconds? Is it only my ‘feeling’? Today I tried few times to sync and what used to be a bit longer process, now feels so quick. I even had to make sure that everything was synced since it felt quite fast -
@isazi said in What do you expect from the next update?:
@maszop my Vertical was the watch I wanted on day 1, that’s the reason I bought it. Everything else that came after is just a bonus. If you believe you can buy a product and wait for it to become something else, well, look naive in the dictionary.
And as did I buy a Vertical on day 1 with engraving… The only bug I need fixed is the loss of breadcrumb, and in the new release it appears to be fixed.
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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@Brad_Olwin ‘Shut up legs’
Mine would be: shut up toes -
Hopefully next week we can resolve this issue. Minor hiccupz.
Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
Creator of Quantified-Self.io
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https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105 -
@Brad_Olwin classic Jens
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in What do you expect from the next update?:
Hopefully next week we can resolve this issue. Minor hiccupz.
This means we have to wait until next week (or longer) for the update, right? No problem for me but I just want to know.
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@Mitch9 what is a week in the context of the eternal joy from fixed bugs?
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@Łukasz-Szmigiel said in What do you expect from the next update?:
@Mitch9 what is a week in the context of the eternal joy from fixed bugs?
Nothing! I’m absolutely fine with that. I just want to save my F5 button from unnecessary usage.
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Having had many watches from different brands, personally I love the simplicity of the Suunto watches. There’s a lot of marketing between tons of metrics that many times do not have sense. Like this one, which is just marketing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Garmin/comments/ygtqjz/does_your_garmin_watch_learns_your_real_stamina/ .
Here is supposed that you are out of stamina after 6 hours and in that ultra and you are running 4 hours more. So yes, that is garbage added to an expensive watch, like the F7 Pro I had. Coros is adding some of those Garmin things (like the stress measurement), and with weird results. I really hope Suunto does not create those things that are pure marketing.I personally bought the Vertical for the real world. And that’s a watch that is accurate (probably the most of the market), with very long lasting battery (best of the market), lightweight (best of the market with that battery lasting), with a good design (personally I think the best of the market with a 1.4 inch panel in 49mm) and, in the case of the Vertical, very premium materials. Having owned very expensive watches, I find the Vertical incredible good.
About the bugs and features, I can see 3 points:
- Bugs. Those should be of course fixed, because were announced things and correct operation is expected. I.E. The step counter seems to count like 3 times the real steps when not on workout (when in workout, i.e, running in the treadmill with no GPS, seems pretty accurate).
- Mixed between bugs and features. I.E. Those things in these forums like the watch not supporting multiple sensors of the same type (cyclists), the alarms between intervals when running (runners) or the wake up alarms for weekdays (people that does not work from monday to friday at the same time, does not work, is retired, work shifts…). These, is good to have them fixed because the functionality of the watch affects several groups of people.
- Features. These are totally free things. We are receaving the “Climb Pro”. This is for free. It’s a nice thing to have, but it’s just another thing. As a trail runner, I’d love to see it but, as said, I bought the watch without expecting that. And I’m happy.
Same goes for those that want music. We bought the watch knowing there was not that feature. Personally I don’t want that thing in my watch. I had it on Garmin and have never used the watch for music.
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@dreamer_ I used a Garmin Epix Gen 2 for 8 months. On every run over 6-8h my Stamina was 0, despite finishing a race at 24h later. I think the new Endurance and Hill scores, which I did not try were a way to get around this. I found most of the training metrics on the Garmin useless, similar to the suggested workouts. The training is geared toward marathons and shorter races and not optimized for trails. I think is works well for road running.
TrainingPeaks has been a leader in planning and assessing fitness for Triathlon, Road and now Ultra. I have used TP for nearly two decades now and it has served me well. I am extremely pleased that Suunto now uses TP metrics for training. I no longer have to visit TP so often!
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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