Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?
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@ChrisA agreed and I think we are discounting a lot of other variables like positioning in the arm, skin temp, etc. that impact this. Aside from AWs, one really needs to test similar competitor watches in a like-for-like setting and environment to discern difference in OHR (assuming that is the only variable component of interest but ofcourse GPS and the like can also be checked).
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@altcmd I get a lot of the evidence is not scientific but there is definitely a consistent voice around the OHR not being great. If you need more concrete evidence Rays review noted points where the OHR completely lost the plot while seemed to do well in other sections. That certainly matches my experience.
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Suunto vertical is a very good looking watch, but as to most features it lags much behind its competitors and this is a shame. Why offering OHR, blood measurement if unreliable? why pool swimming is still so wrong? why map do not contemplate street names? why the mip is so washed out (Casio GBD H2000 is a mip screen but way way better than suunto and the same Coros watches). Coros in particular is a very good example of a clear willing to improve and implement their watches through continuous firmware updates embracing all their line up and not just the latest release. Suunto does seem to think the same way. I bought the SV titanium but after 29 days of daily comparisons with a Coros and a Garmin I sent it back. That’s a pity as the SV is, in theory, an awesome watch.
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@Dante-Mclalla In my case OHR is spot on in daily activities and sleep tracking, but my excessive sweating while exercising (sorry for too much information) tends to mess it up. I’d be happy for improvements in this area, but I’m ok with using an HR strap. Based on what I’ve read from reviews other brands suffer from not-so-perfect OHR too.
In this thread someone already mention that spO2 is a must feature from marketing perspective because every brand offers it. I find it pretty useless. Although it was funny to see very low spO2 measurement when I was feeling bad after going to scary rollercoaster… I can’t say if the result was truthful, but it correlated with my feelings.
What about pool swimming? I saw you commenting in another thread about problems with breaststroke swimming. You didn’t specify what kind of problems you encountered. My biggest problem is that my Vertical sometimes counts extra mileage whenever I need to zig-zag when there are slower swimmers or kids playing in my lane. But otherwise breaststroke works ok for me. Well, I am slow, so Vertical has time to think and observe what this fatso is doing
It is very interesting you should compare Casio GBD H2000 with Vertical. I didn’t find the exact numbers for Casio, but in every picture I saw it was a) monochrome and b) much lower resolution than Vertical. Coros display looks nice, though!
I used to have S9B and for a couple of years I did see continuous SW improvements and it wasn’t only for the newest models S9P and S9PP. I expect Suunto to keep on doing this.
In my opinion it is not very productive to get rid of your gear and then come back here listing individual features that were not to your liking and then drop random brand names that seem to be performing better in those areas. If there was a perfect watch, better than all the others in every aspect, then everyone should by that one. But I guess there is no such thing.
There are flaws in Vertical, but it is a work in progress and will improve. Feel free to complain about a couple of features, but we should look at it as a whole ecosystem, containing also the phone app, partner offerings, watch guides and watch apps. I did some comparison testing back in the day and chose Suunto because of my own personal preferences.
Your preferences are different, so good luck to you with Garmin and Coros!
Compasses: M-311, A-10, SK-7
Diving: Finnlight Navy 90, Vyper
Sports: Metron, S7, S9B and Vertical -
@Dante-Mclalla It depends on how you look at it. I’ve never really thought about what you’re talking about.
When it gets cold outside I use an external heart rate belt, when it is warm the SV beats like a Swiss clock when I compare it with my heart rate belt, it even responds faster! (this also varies per person, but every brand has problems with thin wrists and cold temperatures).
the saturation value of your blood is only important if you are high in the mountains or if you are ill, otherwise it is not really important, more of a gimmick.
I use maps when I am running or walking through nature and I am not familiar with that area and then walk a pre-made route, the map works fine, just looking for a second is enough to know where to go.
When I’m walking in a city I use my phone, which is a lot more convenient than such a small screen.
It just depends on how you want to see the watch? as a sportswatch or as a smartwatch and there are indeed big differences, but it is still not a bad sports watch! -
@Dante-Mclalla The Casio you mentioned is a simple black and white display.
I ditched coros vertix 2 because of its terrible washed out display and fonts. S9PP was far superior, and Vertical even better, and for me the best MIPS display so far.
I guess individual experience varies.
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@mikekoski490 Indeed - I found 9PP display to be quite dull, even though it was said to be better than the 9P. SV is far better.
Needless to say, a common theme here is that the SV hardware has no equal - Suunto has put SV in a league of its own (some who are having issues with OHR bubbles will disagree and I hear you). However, majority of the headache with Suunto is related to its software. My own subjective opinion here is that the hardware and software are at opposite ends - one better than the rest while the other worse. My own opinion, so don’t bury me for this
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@altcmd To me the S9PP display was way better than my Coros Vertix 2 when I had them side by side for about a week before I sold the Coros.
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@Dante-Mclalla In practically, Suunto is a very good GPS survival watch. So other features i don’t put high hope on that but i still wear it 24/7 except during shower.
Suunto watch help me to survive inside forest. Give me confidence to explore alone in the forest without worry getting lost.
Map without street/trail names it is fine for me because previously i rely on the breadcrumb for navigation and still able to complete my hike and run safely.
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For what it’s worth, switching to Suunto from Garmin, I was incredibly tempted to switch back. Why you may ask? (Follow me on this…)
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Garmin’s step counting is just leaps ahead of Suunto (it’s not really the technology, rather it’s just too sensitive per the existing algorithm)
// At the time, I thought seeing a step counter, that for me was 98% accurate, was helping me stay active somehow. I realized that If I’m clocking 3-5 miles a day on runs, an hour at the gym, eating right, how important is it really that I see 10,000 steps on my watch? It’s not. -
Garmin’s health metrics. The sleep (when I go to sleep, wake up) were SPOT ON. It’s nice seeing how much I slept, even if I don’t care about sleep stages.
// First two days with the SV, it was WAY off when I went to sleep. I’m unsure what happened… but that third day, up to and including today, has been spot on, just like my Garmin. Again, since I don’t care for sleep stages, per se, the general picture of how long I’m sleeping is awesome. Not to mention… idk what magic Suunto is cooking, but I always wake up to ZERO steps… Garmin somehow can’t figure out how to turn steps off when the watch detects I’m sleeping… so I’d wake up to 50-200 lol. -
GPS accuracy. I was a bit shocked when my trail, race course, finished with 8.15 when I’ve always finished between 7.8-8.0mi (buddies finish about the same in their Coros, and 8.3 on their Apple Watch). I thought something may be wacky with the actual system being used to mark my track and distance.
// After some research, and speaking with y’all, I realized Garmin has a few things they do that are just different. Not necessarily for the better, or the worse, just different when it comes to SatIQ. That said, it’s been SPOT ON with road courses, and I’m never going to just give up if it’s within 2% margin of error. I’m sure it’ll be just fine on other trails. -
Calories burned estimation. While no watch is by any means super a accurate with this… Suunto is comically bad. I do not burn 1000 calories on a 45 min flat walk, in which I dont even break a sweat lol. Other units has estimated 100-200ish, which is much more realistic. It just bothered me… because if all this is taken into account for Suunto’s recovery, wellness alg, it’s surely not providing accurate information at a big scale.
// I then realized… wait, I don’t even care about calories from these devices, why am I getting my panties in a bunch over nothing? Again, sleep data, general heart rate trends (resting) and a place to track and log runs, workouts. That’s all I need.
What Suunto has really made me understand, and let’s be honest…appreciate, is that I don’t need a watch full of gimmicks. I need a tool, reliable, GPS, exceptional battery, MIP display and something that is durable. The fact that the Vertical is a gorgeous watch is just a bonus. Personally, I much prefer the layout of the Suunto app, and I’m eager to see future updates.
To conclude, is one watch going to be “perfect” for everyone? probably not. You just have to be realistic about your needs, and find the best fit FOR YOU.
I guess that’s my unwanted take haha. Sorry
- Suunto Vertical Steel, All Black
- Suunto Wing, Lava Red
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@Andrewx01 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:
For what it’s worth, switching to Suunto from Garmin, I was incredibly tempted to switch back. Why you may ask? (Follow me on this…)
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Garmin’s step counting is just leaps ahead of Suunto (it’s not really the technology, rather it’s just too sensitive per their all)
// At the time, I thought seeing a step counter, that for me was 98% accurate, was helping me stay active somehow. I realized that If I’m clocking 3-5 miles a day on runs, an hour at the gym, eating right, how important is it really that I see 10,000 steps on my watch? It’s not. -
Garmin’s health metrics. The sleep (when I go to sleep, wake up) were SPOT ON. It’s nice seeing how much I slept, even if I don’t care about sleep stages.
// First two days with the SV, it was WAY off when I went to sleep. I’m unsure what happened… but that third day, up to and including today, has been spot on, just like my Garmin. Again, since I don’t care for sleep stages, per se, the general picture of how long I’m sleeping is awesome. Not to mention… idk what magic Suunto is cooking, but I always wake up to ZERO steps… Garmin somehow can’t figure out how to turn steps off when the watch detects I’m sleeping… so I’d wake up to 50-200 lol. -
GPS accuracy. I was a bit shocked when my trail, race course, finished with 8.15 when I’ve always finished between 7.8-8.0mi (buddies finish about the same in their Coros, and 8.3 on their Apple Watch). I thought something may be wacky with the actual system being used to mark my track and distance.
// After some research, and speaking with y’all, I realized Garmin has a few things they do that are just different. Not necessarily for the better, or the worse, just different when it comes to SatIQ. That said, it’s been SPOT ON with road courses, and I’m never going to just give up if it’s within 2% margin of error. I’m sure it’ll be just fine on other trails.
-Calories burned estimation. While no watch is by any means super a accurate with this… Suunto is comically bad. I do not burn 1000 calories on a 45 min flat walk, in which I dont even break a sweat lol. Other units has estimated 100-200ish, which is much more realistic. It just bothered me… because if all this is taken into account for Suunto’s recovery, wellness alg, it’s surely not providing accurate information at a big scale.
// I then realized… wait, I don’t even care about calories from these devices, why am I getting my panties in a bunch over nothing? Again, sleep data, general heart rate trends (resting) and a place to track and log runs, workouts. That’s all I need.What Suunto has really made me understand, and let’s be honest…appreciate, is that I don’t need a watch full of gimmicks. I need a tool, reliable, GPS, and something that is durable. The fact that the Vertical is a gorgeous watch is just a bonus. Personally, I much prefer the layout of the Suunto app.
Is one watch going to ever be “perfect” probably not. You just have to be realistic about your needs, and find the best fit you for.
I guess that’s my unwanted take haha. Sorry
Thanks dude, for sharing your experience with vertical.
Seriously, I never had Garmin watch in my life before vertical, and vertical gives me the envie to get a Garmin and damn they are doing well.
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For starters, thanks @Andrewx01 for the balance, and I think the items in the negative column we are all hoping to be smoothed out in the next Suunto firmware update. I know Garmin is constantly fixing things too, and Suunto is a bit younger than the Fenix 7 so needs some time catch up.
@zhang965 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:
Seriously, I never had Garmin watch in my life before vertical, and vertical gives me the envie to get a Garmin and damn they are doing well.
Just curious, out of the posters review, he had for Garmin on step counting, a bit better on sleep metrics but his 3rd day with Suunto was ‘spot on’ and Garmin was counting steps in his sleep, and on GPS ‘Garmin has a few things different…not necessarily better or worse…’, , and said “I need a tool, reliable, GPS, and something that is durable. The fact that the Vertical is a gorgeous watch is just a bonus. Personally, I much prefer the layout of the Suunto app” but @zhang965 you seem to take away that, based on his post ‘the vertical gives me the envie to get a Garmin…’(?)
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@Andrewx01 somehow I have the exact feeling as you, in terms of GPS accuracy and the sleep tracking part which Garmin seems to be more accurate. I am using my 965 as my main watch now and thinking of letting my Vertical go.
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@BrunoH well said. I use both Garmins and Suuntos, but my Baro is my favourite by far. No, it’s not perfect, it’s outdated now, and isn’t loaded with features. But it’s rock solid in so many areas and the quality build is just nuts compared to my Garmins. To me my Baro will be with me for a long time to come. I feel an attachment to it. The Garmins are great but they’re just means to an end. There’s a difference.
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@Andrewx01 I was and continue to be (and hopefully remain) ‘All In’ Suunto boy. And the Vertical was and is a damn great looking device. However, I have been plagued with crashes mid activity with the old device and out of the activity with the new that I have now placed in my drawer turned off. Its a pitty really, I am hardly waiting to test it with the new FW but if I get another crash I guess its a sad goodbye by me. I mean all have errors and gimmics especially if you offer so many metrics (Garmin). But none of the other watches I had or tested have crashed mid activity or crashed at all. (The F6x once got stuck with some weird screen shadows and was repalced in less than a week). I think that the App / Backend dev teams are doing one hell of a job and the Suunto ecosystem is the best looking and modern out there but the embedded SW is not being shown the same love. I do know embedded is much more tricky than the others but still Suunto sells watches not services.
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@Hristijan-Petreski A causa dei miei frequenti arresti anomali durante l’attività sportiva ho deciso di spedirlo in assistenza, Dopo 10 giorni l’assistenza mi risponde che l’orologio dopo vari test è perfettamente funzionante…L’unica speranza è che esca presto un nuovo aggiornamento firmware… E’ davvero frustante ciò, anche perchè ho abbandonato il mio affidabilissimo S9 B per il meraviglioso SV.
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@Andrew_ Lol here’s another post that refers to features that Garmin has to offer as “gimmicks.” Without saying whether or not if I agree, it’s just funny because 6 months to a year from now Suunto will find a way to incorporate those same “gimmicks” into their devices. However they’ll no longer be gimmicks…they’ll suddenly be the best thing ever.
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@TyreseJ4 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:
@Andrew_ Lol here’s another post that refers to features that Garmin has to offer as “gimmicks.” Without saying whether or not if I agree, it’s just funny because 6 months to a year from now Suunto will find a way to incorporate those same “gimmicks” into their devices. However they’ll no longer be gimmicks…they’ll suddenly be the best thing ever.
No,
all garmin features are gimmicks, because the G from garmin meaning gimmicks,
Suunto has no G.
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@TyreseJ4 that is because the way Garmin does it, is they generate some data, but the algorithm behind it is cumbersome and thus those things are gimmicks.
When Suunto does it, they do it right and scientifically backed. They then make it useful. HRV has been discussed - you will see other useful features soon
t6, S6, Elementum Terra, Ambit 3 Sapphire, Spartan Ultra Copper, Traverse Alpha, S7 Graphite LE, S9B Ambassador, S9P Granite Blue Titanium, S9PP Titanium Sand, Vertical All Black, Race Titanium Charcoal, Race S All Black, Race S Titanium Canary
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A gimmick isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s all about perception.
If you find a featured useful, good on you, that doesn’t mean it’s good for everyone. Garmin attempts to deliver a plethora of features, some that are truly meaningless, others that are incredibly beneficial. I agree, there are many features I do wish Suunto had that Garmin has that I would still consider a gimmick lol.
Body battery, to me, is useless. Just like resources, to me, is useless. Listen to your body.
I previously believed that HRV / Stress were hit or miss, but I swear by the fact that a Garmin can detect when you’re getting sick before you can.
So, while I’m sure some write off Garmin, while using the term gimmick as a demeaning term, my point was that I don’t need 90% of what they offer. Why? Because those features are gimmicks that don’t help with my training.
