Marathon Training program

[dulko79]

@fluca you couldnt have said it better

[darxmurf]

This thread is getting serious

Just to clarify (and thanks for all your answers), I know a watch will not make me faster or better to run a marathon but as a Geek, I like playing with technology and this kind of tools. And I have to say, geek goodies are bringing a bit of motivation too when talking about training.

I did not wake up this morning saying “hey let’s run a marathon, starting from zero”. I’m not a full time athlete but I’m doing an activity per day, from cycling to work to full day trekking or sometime just 20min stretching. I pretty know I have to listen to my body and not do stupid training just because it’s on my calendar and living with a physiotherapist, I have a pretty good guardian at home

So, again, thanks for all your answers but still, I would love to have the possibility to create multi days training plans and also to have a workout planner with warmups, timers, breaks and all.

Voilà, have a good day folks

[fluca]

@dulko79 Thanks man! I do not believe there is right or wrong in this discussion. The way everybody approaches training is very personal. The point here for me is: should Suunto prioritize features aiming at a very goal oriented, pro and semi-pro athlete or it should follow is own path, promoting health, outdoor adventures and safety? I am for the latter one. If I was thinking different I would probably have stayed with polar or garmin.
Given the lack of resources at Suunto ,they must pay attention to what they engage their resources on and to whom they try to compete.

[isazi]

@fluca Suunto seems to like partnering with other, more specialized, entities, probably to not have to reimplemented everything given the amount of resources they have.

[fluca]

@darxmurf Just to say that there is not criticism at all from side, you do not need to justify, I have been there were you are for years… as young man I was also seeking motivation in new tools, shoes, watches and sensors. Now that I am an hold guy, I try to get motivation from the inner me and not from something outside and that I have to pay for.
I have learned that sometimes lack of motivation is the very first signal your body gives you to tell you: “take a step back and chill out”.
When you get older (like me), you tend to gives advice based on experience, even tough nobody is requesting them…so listen to them but keep doing what you think is best for you.

[darxmurf]

@fluca thanks mate. Thanks for the “young” I would say, I’m half young now (41). But again, age is pretty relative

[suzzlo]

I’m not very experienced in Marathon (just run 3) but I really love to plan my workload in advance, based on a predefined plan or just based on my feelings.
Planning also helps me with the motivation and commitment part.

Also I have participate in some triathlon, and there, training planning is key, because you need to combine at least 4 different sports (stretch/strength also)

So definitely if your goal is to stay healthy probably you don’t need a plan, but if you want to beat any of your records or have a long season, you should have a plan

BR

[jsuarez]

@darxmurf said in Marathon Training program:

@brad_olwin said in Marathon Training program:

@darxmurf I run ultramarathons without training plans in my watch (38 so far). While training plans likely work better for marathons do not get trapped into a plan or lulled into thinking following a prescribed plan will insure success. Similar to what @isazi said but perhaps a bit more forceful.

You are absolutely right, you don’t even need a watch for anything. I would say, you don’t even need shoes if you are brave enough.
It’s just about what’s available or not on a top level watch in comparison with other brands.

You are beating a dead horse here, I’m afraid.

There are two clear bands in this forum. One that includes you (and me as well) who are reluctant to not have this feature (in my case I don’t want to have to remember what specific program I have for the day. I want the watch to guide me as predefined and I do as instructed), and others who don’t mind and jokingly would even not need shoes, as you point out. That is so even at a € 450-500 price point.

Note that this feature existed for older generations of Suunto watches (Spartans and previous generations) but was axed because of the transition to the new app and infrastructure. They even removed the capability of older watches to program complex intervals. Kind of pitiful in my opinion, because the competition have that and for me that was valuable (most specially together with the in-house progress-analysis-rich web frontend the had, called Movescount -web).

If this feature comes (we will see…; it’s already been almost 4 years of transition, and almost seems more like an exodus to me) you bet it will be all bells and whistles about the “new” feature.

[jsuarez]

@isazi said in Marathon Training program:

@fluca Suunto seems to like partnering with other, more specialized, entities, probably to not have to reimplemented everything given the amount of resources they have.

That’s understandable, but Suunto already had that in place and its older users paid for that. I bet there are probably more users who would prefer regaining those features than having a gravel bike sports mode.

To me the final nail in the coffin was the decommission of Movescount web and its rich features, which were proudly advertised in the watch box and I had paid for.

[jsuarez]

@brad_olwin said in Marathon Training program:

@darxmurf If you read my statement I did not say you don’t need a watch. Specifically, following a rigid training plan is likely to do more harm than good. Downloading a plan to the watch (or a website) can either be harmful or ineffective. It depends on where your base fitness is. If you have a long history, say a year of running 20 to 30 k per week, you could focus more on Tempo running or VO2 max intervals to improve your marathon pace. If you run no more than 5 to 10 km per week then doing the above will likely injure you and will certainly not make you more fit. That is my reasoning for being careful or avoiding canned training plans.

You don’t need to follow a strict plan. You could just design the exercise you want 5 minutes before hitting the road. And to some (many?) users, having a sports watch that is a bit more intelligent and can hint you the next step (e.g. imagine ladder intervals or pace hints, etc.) would be great. I’ve never followed a pre planned strict plan, but have been making it on the go with some predefined ideas (more or less in the way that @suzzlo pointed out a couple of posts above).

Not everybody can train with a group or a coach and therefore this feature is very valuable to some (many?). At least for me -I don’t have too much free time and have to end up training at night many days because of commitment to my job-, it is.

To me it would be a quite incredible if Suunto were to provide this only via 3rd parties and not with an ad hoc Suunto app section. In the end you have to push something to the watch…

[fluca]

@suzzlo having a plan is essential. Having an overdetailed plan minutes by minutes is not. At least for me. Actually has proved harmful. I occasionally compete in race longer then 10/12 hours which is also the effort required to complete an Ironman for an average non-pro athletes.
When I do train seriously, I plan of course for the entire year like this:
let’s say my main event is expected to last, say, 12 hours with a training load of, say, 750 points. I do the offseason training and build up my training volume, until 3 to 4 weeks before the event I am able to sustain 18 hours of training per week and/or 1100 training load point per week (i.e. at least 1 and 1/2 the expected race training load). This normally leads me to 380/400 training hours per/year. At that point I start the peaking phase in view of the event/race.
I train 80%/90% in low aerobic and the remainder at higher intensity. The more I am near the event the more specific my training becomes i,e, if I will compete uphill in the mountain I spend more time uphill in the mountain. If I want to train for uphill in the mountain at a certain speed I will spend more and more time uphill in the mountain at that speed. That’s all that matter according to phycologists world leading coaches. This is what I meant above when mentioning the simple principles of training and stating that actually complex interval are more marketing then anything else.
As you see with simple training principles, I do not need complex intervals.

[darxmurf]

@jsuarez I totally agree with everything you said

[isazi]

@fluca I do almost the same as you, more or less decide what are the events I want to participate in a year, and then start around January/February with 8 weeks of waking up for the body, followed by as many weeks as I can of base, during which I begin introducing more specific training (e.g. climbing in my case) to the basic strength/running/hiking.
During the weekend I “plan” the week ahead, deciding which days I’ll do what based on my life calendar of the coming week (am I at home? traveling? do I have other things to do already in my agenda?). For this I used, in the past 6 years, a combination of TrainingPeaks and Google Calendar, depending on my mood that year to be honest.
It is nice when my watch beeps before I start an activity and says “you wanted to do this today”, but honestly I already remember everything because my memory lasts longer than I week, and I hope it’ll keep working well in the future. And when I want to freshen up my memory, I open TP or Calendar before leaving my apartment.

And this does not mean others cannot do whatever they want. Some people want something and some people other things.

[Brad_Olwin]

@fluca Agreed, we should have plans. Í have been requesting this for a long time. I would like to have hours and intensity of exercise in a plan. Plus, I believe this is a basic function all users should have.

[fluca]

@isazi you are right. Training system can be different so the tools used are different. I am totally ok with that.
But just trying to push my idea of what I would consider more useful,
I share here below my view of a good planning tools implementation. For me would be all about training load [TSS] (for those who does not know is =time x workout relative intensity:

For instance a Target week would be:

Mon- Running 80 TSS-> Moderate
Tue- Cycling 80 TSS -> Slow
Wed - Rest
Thu - Strength 60 ->TSS
Fri- Running 60 TSS -> Hard
Sat-Cycling 120 TSS -> Slow
Sun-Running 120 TSS -> Moderate

Slow-Moderate-Hard are corresponding to my personal Hear Rate Zones (it was like that on my Ambit 3 on Movescount)

Having that pushed into the watch and in Suunto app calendar would be simple and effective (and somehow, motivating)

Then I would like to have a summary page with the following information in Suunto APP:

Total week projected TSS week 520
Total week projected ATL projection 74
Current ATL 70
Total week Projected CTL projection 70
Current CTL 66
Total week Project Training Status >Maintaining (or productive .or peaking…)
Current Training Status >Maintaining

Of course once I get that, I would spend the rest of the week moving things around to fit my busy life.

Let me know what you think about this possible implementation and thanks for interacting with me.

[wmichi]

@fluca You basically want Suunto to do what TrainingPeaks does. I would love that.

[suzzlo]

@wmichi @fluca and also me.

Plan activities for next week. Plan them based on some combination of: TSS/Time/distance/ and see a summary of each week. Some Intervals would be required (simple are ok, like the ones that can be planned in our Spartans)
If we could see a projection of ATL/CTL I would be a dream

BR

[fluca]

@wmichi You got that!! The best training platform tightly integrated with the best training tools

[olivier.cornelissen]

@isazi : soon = nice! Looking forward to the next release…