Marathon Training program

MiniForklift

I’m the same as Brad, I run marathons and ultramarathons and have never worked off any plans from a watch. You’re probably better getting to the start of your 12 or 16 week training ‘plan’ with a good fitness base and then planning your training and workouts around your key sessions; for me my general template looks something like this:

WEEKLY KEY SESSIONS
Short repeats eg 400’s, 500’s etc
X mins on / X mins off
OR
Longer repeats eg 3 x 2km
Tempo work (either as a shorter run or as part of a longer run)
Hills
Weekend long run(s)

ULTRA TRAINING
Recovery day(s)
Tempo (either as a shorter run or as part of a longer run)
Race-pace run (usually making sure I’m not running at too fast a pace)
Repeats (more useful to me if it’s a shorter ultra eg 50km)
Medium-long run 25km+
Long run 35km+

Having a couple of things like that to make sure I can tick off each week, but not being rigid enough that I can’t adjust when I need to works well for me. I wouldn’t want to be relying on what a watch or overly specific plan tells me I am needing to be doing in order to remain on track

darxmurf

@brad_olwin said in Marathon Training program:

@darxmurf I run ultramarathons without training plans in my watch (38 so far). While training plans likely work better for marathons do not get trapped into a plan or lulled into thinking following a prescribed plan will insure success. Similar to what @isazi said but perhaps a bit more forceful.

You are absolutely right, you don’t even need a watch for anything. I would say, you don’t even need shoes if you are brave enough.
It’s just about what’s available or not on a top level watch in comparison with other brands.

isazi

@darxmurf said in Marathon Training program:

@isazi but when you say “soon”, how soon is it?

How soon is now?

cosme.costa

@darxmurf said in Marathon Training program:

You are absolutely right, you don’t even need a watch for anything. I would say, you don’t even need shoes if you are brave enough.
It’s just about what’s available or not on a top level watch in comparison with other brands.

I think what @Brad_Olwin meant is that most of this quick/specific training programs are more counter-productive that other thing if you start from zero or from a low point. In general, you can have a very specific training program for a goal but if you do not have a solid base then you are going to pay the effort you did with some time in the well or some injuries. This is going to be your case? Maybe not but it is the case of the majority of the people that train in that way.

A marathon is not a piece of cake, more if you want to set a good time. If you have a good base, checking these specific training plans you can easily see if they are good or not, but if you have a good base probably you do not need them or only need to get some ideas from them.

cosme.costa

@darxmurf said in Marathon Training program:

@isazi but when you say “soon”, how soon is it?

If yo read some posts, we should have the update around march.

I guess we will first have an important release in SA that will allow to program structured workouts/training plans and then we will get the update (This is what I guess, no real info here)

DMytro

@cosme-costa not necessarily, or it also might not be visible. Just as it was the case with S+ edits from the phone - a watch update was needed to activate the feature.

Bulkan

@darxmurf I find very useful to have workouts sessions in a watch and planned… If you want to use it you can use it if you don’t just run. At this point if you google a little you will find something is coming. Soon.

I recommend to use a shoes for running.

And a watch if you want to know the time.

And a gps watch if you want to know the distance you are running.

fluca

@brad_olwin @darxmurf and to reinforce a little bit the message, the best advice I can give is investing in your training competencies.
Buy at least this two books and read them:

The Triathlete’s Training Bible, 4th Ed.
*Training for the Uphill Athlete: A Manual for Mountain Runners and Ski Mountaineers

Get used to training and stress management and try to gain back your natural capability to listen to your body.
I mean literally learn to recognize body signals, not reading data produced by whatever sensor.

I have done that and I have lost the need to plan workout. On a daily or even weekly basis.

When you learn the true principles of training, you will recognize that you do not need more then what is offered already by a Suunto to train right and most of the things are just marketing features that are a bit counterproductive and uneducative in this respect.

That strategy has worked for me, before doing so I was in for all the technologies in the world, I used every possible technology but I was constantly either injured or over trained (another form of injury).

Hope this helps…

Egika

@fluca said in Marathon Training program:

When you learn the true principles of training, you will recognize that you do not need more then what is offered already by a Suunto to train right and most of the things are just marketing features that are a bit counterproductive and uneducative in this respect.

Fully agree.
And now lets wait for those marketing features that are desperately needed by many others

Brad_Olwin

@darxmurf If you read my statement I did not say you don’t need a watch. Specifically, following a rigid training plan is likely to do more harm than good. Downloading a plan to the watch (or a website) can either be harmful or ineffective. It depends on where your base fitness is. If you have a long history, say a year of running 20 to 30 k per week, you could focus more on Tempo running or VO2 max intervals to improve your marathon pace. If you run no more than 5 to 10 km per week then doing the above will likely injure you and will certainly not make you more fit. That is my reasoning for being careful or avoiding canned training plans.

wmichi

@fluca I agree. Every athlete needs to know the own body and read the signals correctly. But this does not make training plans obsolete. In my opinion, only with a plan you can reach your full potential, while always listening to your body. The latter means: It’s always the athlete who takes decisions, and not technology (watch, training platform).

But technology can help to achieve training goals. If I could plan my training week in the Suunto App and the the watch guided me through my complex pyramid intervals (or whatever), this would make my training sessions easier. I could focus better on my performance and/or beautiful nature, instead of pressing buttons. Of course you can do everything with a Suunto watch, but the support of structured intervals and training plan features would make Suuntos an even better tool for training.

fluca

@wmichi If I was a full time athletes I would probably push for that kind of features.
But I am not, I am a 45 years hold, father of two child and working more than full time. I train to stay healthy and to have fun.
Having a super specific plan has simply not worked form me in the past 15 years or so. Still I train with a purpose and just looking at ATL/CTL and polarization. I decide if to go hard or slow when I am already 20 minutes in my training, because only then I understand if I am ready or not to tackle a hard work out. If a decide to tackle an hard workout a week in advance and then my body is not ready to tackle it, I will probably injure myself. In the end, when I was used to plan one or two weeks in advance, I was spending the rest of the week to move training around to fit my daily schedule or my energy level. More frustrating then enjoyable or useful for me.

Brad_Olwin

@wmichi well said

dulko79

@fluca you couldnt have said it better

darxmurf

This thread is getting serious

Just to clarify (and thanks for all your answers), I know a watch will not make me faster or better to run a marathon but as a Geek, I like playing with technology and this kind of tools. And I have to say, geek goodies are bringing a bit of motivation too when talking about training.

I did not wake up this morning saying “hey let’s run a marathon, starting from zero”. I’m not a full time athlete but I’m doing an activity per day, from cycling to work to full day trekking or sometime just 20min stretching. I pretty know I have to listen to my body and not do stupid training just because it’s on my calendar and living with a physiotherapist, I have a pretty good guardian at home

So, again, thanks for all your answers but still, I would love to have the possibility to create multi days training plans and also to have a workout planner with warmups, timers, breaks and all.

Voilà, have a good day folks

fluca

@dulko79 Thanks man! I do not believe there is right or wrong in this discussion. The way everybody approaches training is very personal. The point here for me is: should Suunto prioritize features aiming at a very goal oriented, pro and semi-pro athlete or it should follow is own path, promoting health, outdoor adventures and safety? I am for the latter one. If I was thinking different I would probably have stayed with polar or garmin.
Given the lack of resources at Suunto ,they must pay attention to what they engage their resources on and to whom they try to compete.

isazi

@fluca Suunto seems to like partnering with other, more specialized, entities, probably to not have to reimplemented everything given the amount of resources they have.

fluca

@darxmurf Just to say that there is not criticism at all from side, you do not need to justify, I have been there were you are for years… as young man I was also seeking motivation in new tools, shoes, watches and sensors. Now that I am an hold guy, I try to get motivation from the inner me and not from something outside and that I have to pay for.
I have learned that sometimes lack of motivation is the very first signal your body gives you to tell you: “take a step back and chill out”.
When you get older (like me), you tend to gives advice based on experience, even tough nobody is requesting them…so listen to them but keep doing what you think is best for you.

darxmurf

@fluca thanks mate. Thanks for the “young” I would say, I’m half young now (41). But again, age is pretty relative

suzzlo

I’m not very experienced in Marathon (just run 3) but I really love to plan my workload in advance, based on a predefined plan or just based on my feelings.
Planning also helps me with the motivation and commitment part.

Also I have participate in some triathlon, and there, training planning is key, because you need to combine at least 4 different sports (stretch/strength also)

So definitely if your goal is to stay healthy probably you don’t need a plan, but if you want to beat any of your records or have a long season, you should have a plan

BR