I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?
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@Brad_Olwin said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
Where I run ultras, there are few 100 milers or longer that are less than 30h for me to run. Few of my friends could finish Hardrock in less than 30h so it depends on where you live. FusedTrack is not as good as Performance GPS only for me but an essential feature.
I don’t run 30+ hour 100 milers, and very few people do. And if Suunto want to optimize the watch for ultra-runners like those it needs to do a lot of things differently, starting from not using unchangeable 5 minute scale for the graphs.
I’ve run one 100 miler so far, and I used a Good (5 second refresh) GPS mode with Ambit3 (didn’t yet have Suunto 9), and that turned out to be a disaster. Not only I had super inaccurate distance at the end (extra 25 miles) but the watch had also shut down at 26 hours instead of promised 30 hours. The watch entered a very strange mode where it combined distance from the GPS and from the accelerometer, and by the end it was doubling the actual distance, adding 0.01 mile every 10 steps. I learned my lesson, and next time when I do a distance like that I’d rather recharge my watch running in Best mode than use an extended battery mode.
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@silentvoyager i thought the combining of gps and accelerometer disctance (fused-track) is only a feature for S9 and up? didn’t the ambit3 only use that combination for speed accuracy (fused-speed)?
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@silentvoyager I have run 100 milers with my A3P and a 120 miler. I will restate that even at 5 sec fix the A3P would not last. Glad to have an S9 that will last. BTW many folks run or attempt to run 100 milers that are 30+ hours. Hardrock has over 1000 applicants and they all must run a hard 100 miler to qualify. Only the elite can finish theses races under 28-30h.
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@Brad_Olwin for ultras the S9 must be awesome. i have just one problem. the watch battery lasts, but my “body battery” would go to sleep mode.
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@mario_b said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
@silentvoyager i thought the combining of gps and accelerometer disctance (fused-track) is only a feature for S9 and up? didn’t the ambit3 only use that combination for speed accuracy (fused-speed)?
When Ambit3 looses GPS it starts getting speed and GPS from accelerometer. A simple test is to run through a tunnel, which I did a few times during Seattle Marathon. When Ambit3 regains GPS it is supposed to account for the distance that it had already measured with accelerometer so the distance isn’t measured twice, but in the long tunnel example it doesn’t do that correctly so it adds the distance from the last known GPS position again, resulting in (almost) doubling the measured distance. During my 100 mile race, since GPS was countinuously on and off every 5 seconds and GPD reception was challenging in deep canyons, it somehow flagged GPS performance as poor over the course of the race and started counting distance from both accelerometer and GPS, adding both. At least that is what support told me at the time. I don’t think that has ever been fixed.
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@silentvoyager cool, thx for the info, i have to try that.
so example would be:
running into a 1k tunnel, and distance should increase.
getting gps signal back would add an extra 1k. (approximatly)? -
@mario_b said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
@silentvoyager cool, thx for the info, i have to try that.
so example would be:
running into a 1k tunnel, and distance should increase.
getting gps signal back would add an extra 1k. (approximatly)?Yes, that was my experience with Ambit3.
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@silentvoyager that is kinda an edge case and does not happen all the time (1/10 the most). I do run tunnels more than 1K the “old railway” path here in the pyrenees due to GPS testing.
I have observed:
When a gps fix comes, fused speed only increases the distance by the amount the gps distance exceeds wrist distance. Here, however, likely the first fix after tunnel comes through with old coordinates, so fused speed syncs the wrist distance increment first to that, and then when the next fix comes 1s later, fused speed sees that the location has changed only then.
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@silentvoyager @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos i think thats why it’s recommend to use “Best” for fast moving, “good” gps for slow moving and 200 when track and distance is not exactly needed? "like a weekly trekking trip for example. that you can see on the map where you have gone.
so for running with 5 sec ping i could imangin , loosing 2 gps signal would make a 15 sec gap where accelerometer distance could start counting, but on the next signal this distance could count again.
could that be possible? -
@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos when this is coming?
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@mario_b My experience was that the 5-sec mode was fine when I tested it on several shorter runs, the distance difference with the 1-sec mode wasn’t significant. But during the race I started to notice that the distance was off after about the first 30 miles (50 km) as the race course started dipping into multiple canyons (that was Western States 100M race). As the race progressed the watch distance kept increasingly diverging from the true distance and by the end the watch was doubling the distance even though the terrain was very open.
I am not sure how Suunto 9 would handle that when running in Endurance or Ultra mode, but I am not going to try that in a race setting - if something goes wrong that would be too frustrating.
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@silentvoyager yes i know what you mean. When I first got the watch (ambit3) i took the Garmin (watch i had before) with me for comparison. On good conditions 5sec and Garmin where both spot on. On bad conditions the 1sec made such a great track where the Garmin failed.
I think on 1 sec the gps is on permanently and can filter out ring signals quite well, where on 5 sec it struggles too like any other. -
Moving my bike onto a turbo trainer for winter I had to realise that the Suunto S9 is actually a big step back from my Ambit 2!
I reactivated my old ANT pods as well as my Ambit 2 and I am fine now again.
For example, S9 can only pair ONE bike pod, either Speed or Cadence or one combined Speed and Cadence pod. Those work with magnets, how 80s is that?
My Ambit 2 can pair THREE bike pods AND THREE Cadence pods! See photo.
I read else where that folks struggle in case they have several bikes and maybe a turbo trainer.
please Suunto, start considering your core constituency: Replacing Luck!
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@bulkan said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
I´ve been so close to buy and Ambit 3 because the apps… I’ve reading and playing with the simulator…
Drills when I’m swimming are missed… yes and nobody’s swim here… or what?
This being said, today exploring a new zone, created a route in the suunto app, transferred to my watch (dreaming about the POI but knowing that are coming), the navigation was perfect, ETA… When I’m traveling I don’t carry the laptop… so it is very easy to use.
The UI of the Suunto 9 is very clean, the screen is gorgeous.
I hope one day we could have, even vía partners, synced plans of training and structured workouts.
But I agree with the statement “Ambit is over, Suunto 9 is the present and rocks”I swim, and the absence of “drill mode” is unacceptable.
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@luca-troscè
I can’t believe you’re stooped so low. -
@brad_olwin said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
@zhang965 Seems like most of you do not run ultras. FusedTrack is the most amazing feature since having GPS track runs!!! It does not matter if I use Performance, Endurance or Ultra mode. I don’t have to charge my watch ever during a race and it will last for the longest single event I may attempt (70h) or 3day fastpacks! Plus, the watch is easy to use and I like the UI, my zones for HR or Power allow me not to put those fields on the screen.
#2 and this is a biggie. Do you forget that in navigation the ambit went as the bird flies??? The S9 has the distance based on the route, another major deal.
All the others that we get with SA! Immediate route drawing and transfer from the phone. Offline sync.
This is a really old one lol
Do you use hiking sport mode + endurance for the fast packing trips? Or do you consider that a trail run. I’m sure it’s been answered before just not sure on the GPS behavior between hiking and running sport modes for the alternative GPS settings.
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@stromdiddily said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
@brad_olwin said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
@zhang965 Seems like most of you do not run ultras. FusedTrack is the most amazing feature since having GPS track runs!!! It does not matter if I use Performance, Endurance or Ultra mode. I don’t have to charge my watch ever during a race and it will last for the longest single event I may attempt (70h) or 3day fastpacks! Plus, the watch is easy to use and I like the UI, my zones for HR or Power allow me not to put those fields on the screen.
#2 and this is a biggie. Do you forget that in navigation the ambit went as the bird flies??? The S9 has the distance based on the route, another major deal.
All the others that we get with SA! Immediate route drawing and transfer from the phone. Offline sync.
This is a really old one lol
Do you use hiking sport mode + endurance for the fast packing trips? Or do you consider that a trail run. I’m sure it’s been answered before just not sure on the GPS behavior between hiking and running sport modes for the alternative GPS settings.
I typically use a Trail Run mode, as I will be doing jogging when on trails with FastPack trips. I am often off trail as well but moving as quickly as possible (can be considered very slow 30 min/mile or worse) but I view these as similar to Ultras so “Trail Run” mode. I do not go on trips with a heavy pack where I cannot jog unless an overnight SkiMo, which is neither a run or hike.
I do use Hiking modes but those are for hikes only with friends or family where there is no running involved.
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@brad_olwin said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
@stromdiddily said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
@brad_olwin said in I'm I the only who believes Suunto 9 is more of a SIDEGRADE than UPGRADE to Ambit 3 peak?:
@zhang965 Seems like most of you do not run ultras. FusedTrack is the most amazing feature since having GPS track runs!!! It does not matter if I use Performance, Endurance or Ultra mode. I don’t have to charge my watch ever during a race and it will last for the longest single event I may attempt (70h) or 3day fastpacks! Plus, the watch is easy to use and I like the UI, my zones for HR or Power allow me not to put those fields on the screen.
#2 and this is a biggie. Do you forget that in navigation the ambit went as the bird flies??? The S9 has the distance based on the route, another major deal.
All the others that we get with SA! Immediate route drawing and transfer from the phone. Offline sync.
This is a really old one lol
Do you use hiking sport mode + endurance for the fast packing trips? Or do you consider that a trail run. I’m sure it’s been answered before just not sure on the GPS behavior between hiking and running sport modes for the alternative GPS settings.
I typically use a Trail Run mode, as I will be doing jogging when on trails with FastPack trips. I am often off trail as well but moving as quickly as possible (can be considered very slow 30 min/mile or worse) but I view these as similar to Ultras so “Trail Run” mode. I do not go on trips with a heavy pack where I cannot jog unless an overnight SkiMo, which is neither a run or hike.
I do use Hiking modes but those are for hikes only with friends or family where there is no running involved.
Awesome, thank you
