Watch unusable in wind
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@Stefano-M64 said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
The spikes are clearly the issue.
the algorithm that calculates all the related quantities (altitude gain, loss, etc …) should include a running average to smooth out the altitude data, to eliminate the spikes if any.
if you use the search feature here, you’ll find that the folks on the forum actually helped with the algo ended up in use for the S9B when it first came out. There is some pretty open dialogue about what the underlying metric actually looks like
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@Stefano-M64 interestingly enough, the more you smooth and correct, the more you end up losing real-time metrics like pace or vertical speed
Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti
Blog: isazi's home
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I think that further discussion is pointless because we have been writing the same thing for years and years go by and nothing happens.
Actually, just at the end of last year me and others provided Suunto with activity data for the same use case you have, bad weather (and wind in particular) affecting the ascent/descent calculation.
I believe it has not been prioritized because it happens to only some, and not always, and there is always something more urgent to fix. -
@isazi said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Stefano-M64 interestingly enough, the more you smooth and correct, the more you end up losing real-time metrics like pace or vertical speed
a good algorithm should be able to process raw data by eliminating noise and spurious values. Of course, that depends also on the kind of activity. For “slow” activities as walking or hiking data smoothing over 1 minute should give good results. It happens relatively often that SA gives altitude related metrics that are overestimated, only by importing the gpx data into an app (I use OruxMaps) that allow to the filter the data I get values that agree with the expected ones.
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@isazi Improving this current algorithm is essential - current measurements are often completely useless.
Yesterday’s example:
Suunto Vertical measurements -1502m:
Strava data - 1083m:
Garmin Fenix 7 - 1157m:
Suunto data after smoothing - 1198m:
It seems that the measurements from Garmin 7 look the best.
Suunto measurements - better not to even comment on that. -
Yesterday Suunto Vertical also shone:
Suunto Vertical measurements: 3247m
Strava data: 1690m
Elevation profile in Suunto App:
Total disgrace of Suunto.
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@maszop Could be a problem with your baro sensor?
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@sorinus This is the third, all brand new, watch that behaves identically. 9PP and two Verticals.
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@Brad_Olwin the other person who wrote about the pulsing is 100% correct about the issue I’m having. If you look at the elevation graph without zooming it looks kind of normal, even if you have several hundred meters extra. And the top elevation is basically correct. But what happens is you get these tiny up and downs, according to the watch, that can add a ton of elevation gain and descent as it happens so quickly
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@Niclas-Brundell And the exact same thing happens if the watch is submerged in water. You’ll see a huge spike in elevation followed by a huge drop when you take it out. (Someone wrote somewhere about taking a dip mid activity and having it throw the elevations numbers way off.) Seems an easy fix would be to add a simple filter to disregard any elevation changes faster than x meters / second. Others have figured it out.
Vertical Ti
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@Niclas-Brundell The cause is this pulsing, the solution is relatively simple, but Suunto has been pretending for years that the problem does not exist and does not want to fix it.
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Today was the wind stronger than usual. So the spikes on the meadows are significant (and the distance (3D?) is longer too). I’m wearing the Vertical on the sleeve.
(The “spikes” in the Woods are terrain)
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Niclas-Brundell The cause is this pulsing, the solution is relatively simple, but Suunto has been pretending for years that the problem does not exist and does not want to fix it.
How do you know this? On this post and others more than one field tester has told you otherwise. Please stop with the statements that are your personal interpretations of what you think facts are. Suunto is aware of this, collected a lot of data to implement a fix including my data as I have a lot. I do not know when the fix will be implemented.
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@duffman19 said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Niclas-Brundell And the exact same thing happens if the watch is submerged in water. You’ll see a huge spike in elevation followed by a huge drop when you take it out. (Someone wrote somewhere about taking a dip mid activity and having it throw the elevations numbers way off.) Seems an easy fix would be to add a simple filter to disregard any elevation changes faster than x meters / second. Others have figured it out.
Not that simple when skiing fast or paragliding! Water will always be an issue and I would not recommend jumping in water with a run or bike sportmode, do a mode fast switch to swimming and the issue will not happen.
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@Brad_Olwin Just look at the graph in magnification. Besides, sometimes you can see on the watch screen how the current altitude value changes quickly.
And as for Suunto testers, it looks like they unfortunately don’t see many problems during their tests. This is clearly visible when update is released or reporting problems on the forum, where testers always respond “I don’t have this problem”.
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@maszop
I’m sorry but I start having the doubt that you simply don’t read Brad answers, or that you just see what you want to see to reinforce your opinion.quoting @Brad_Olwin
Suunto is aware of this, collected a lot of data to implement a fix including my data as I have a lot. I do not know when the fix will be implemented.
what else do you expect to read here other than people experiences?
is it just a testers blaming game?
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@sartoric I reported the problem through various channels with the release of 9PP, it was the end of 2022. Now it’s 2025, nothing has been done (just denying it) and the only thing that has changed after a few years is that the problem really exists, but whether and when there will be a fix - it is not known.
This is a joke.The same goes for a few other things: contour lines, navigation messages, etc.
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@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
Not that simple when skiing fast or paragliding!
Then can’t there be different parameters or filters for different activities? If it’s a run, bike, walk, or other slowish land activity, a simple filter ignoring sudden drastic changes in elevation makes sense to me. All I know is that I’ve tested this by quickly dunking my Suunto under water side-by-side with other brands and the Suunto is the only one that registers big elevation changes.
@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
I would not recommend jumping in water with a run or bike sportmode, do a mode fast switch to swimming and the issue will not happen.
So if I’m out on the trail and reach down into stream to splash some water on my face or clean off some mud, I should switch to a swimming activity? These are the scenarios I’m referring to where an improved filter would be of service. And I would imagine this would improve the elevation performance in windy situations as well.
@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
Suunto is aware of this, collected a lot of data to implement a fix
Good to hear! Looking forward to testing this when it comes out.
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@duffman19 said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
Not that simple when skiing fast or paragliding!
Then can’t there be different parameters or filters for different activities? If it’s a run, bike, walk, or other slowish land activity, a simple filter ignoring sudden drastic changes in elevation makes sense to me. All I know is that I’ve tested this by quickly dunking my Suunto under water side-by-side with other brands and the Suunto is the only one that registers big elevation changes.
@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
I would not recommend jumping in water with a run or bike sportmode, do a mode fast switch to swimming and the issue will not happen.
So if I’m out on the trail and reach down into stream to splash some water on my face or clean off some mud, I should switch to a swimming activity? These are the scenarios I’m referring to where an improved filter would be of service. And I would imagine this would improve the elevation performance in windy situations as well.
I did not say that! I stated “jumping in water” not dipping your hand the water.
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@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
I did not say that! I stated “jumping in water” not dipping your hand the water.
Gotcha. My point was that dipping the watch in water does in fact cause elevation spikes, very similar to windy conditions as others have outlined here. And this is what should be addressed.
