Turn by turn notifications not working on imported tracks

dreamer_

I’m thinking that the route starts and ends at the same place. It is a route until a point and then a return using the same going track. Perhaps TBT and route is wrong because of that?

isazi

@dreamer_ okay maybe you need to help us here a little. So you can get TbT notifications on the watch but those are wrong, is that the issue?

isazi

@dreamer_ the case you describe would not work with TbT in general (it works with Garmin because they have routable maps). The turns are added by the app (or a third-party service) to the route, so if you plan the route from A to B but then walk it from B to A in the latter case you are going to get all the TbT notifications from A to B, not B to A.

dreamer_

@isazi thanks a lot. What is strange is that the map is also changed after Kommot. Usually when you are on a race, the return track is not the same, so it’s probably ok for me. But there’s a part that is always shared because start and end places are usually the same.

That track was recorded with a Pace 3 and as far as I remember, TBT was working pretty nice in that watch without doing anything.
I cannot confirm since I don’t have that watch now but I used navigation and I don’t remember this issue either.

isazi

@dreamer_ I may be able to do some more testing during the weekend and send feedback to Suunto.

dreamer_

@isazi thanks!!

duffman19

@dreamer_ Is the problem perhaps that you are using a GPX file created from a recorded activity and not one generated by a mapping service? I would think that TBT would need to be added using underlying road and trail info from the mapping service (SA or Komoot or whatever). The raw GPX from the watch does not include this info.

I usually use Komoot to create routes and haven’t had any issues with TBT after syncing to SA and then the Vertical. You could try recreating the route on Komoot using their route creation tool and see it that gives you better results.

dreamer_

@duffman19 thanks but that is not valid. Most races provide you the gpx track and I’d like to use the track provided by them. I think the problem can be what @isazi told me in the last posts since I can see the TBT notifications but are totally wrong. I’ll try a one way track this weekend to confirm if that’s the issue

Mff73

@dreamer_
as @duffman19 wrote it, or to paraphrase, gpx file must contain the TBT instructions in it.
I don’t know how other brand are managing this, but as far as I see it in Suunto, there is no “route/routing” calculation from a gpx containing just the track (which is a bit of logic).
So, if your races are not providing gpx files with TBT, you won’t be able to get them with just a “simple import”.

dreamer_

@Mff73 I was remembering that I also had the Garmin Instinct 2x, which does not even have maps. I’m pretty sure TBT notifications were working perfectly in that watch without doing anything special on imported tracks, the same as with the Coros Pace 3. Someone should check that if possible.

But TBT notifications are really there after the Komoot workaround. I think It’s probably more about what @isazi was explaining about the route I uploaded here.

I’ll try this weekend so I can provide more feedback to see if it can be sorted out with different tracks.

isazi

I thought it was possible to edit an imported track and enable TbT (the toggle is there) but it does not seem to be working at the moment. Toggle should be removed or the feature added, as it is now is misleading.

dreamer_

@isazi here’s also the official track of the UTMB.
https://montblanc.utmb.world/races/UTMB and the track of the Hardrock 100: https://hardrock100.com/hardrock-course.php

TBT notifications are not there when the gpx is directly imported when using official tracks of well known races. So it’s not an issue of my gpx files. But, I think the Komoot workaround is probably valid when not repeating the track (same return as the go)

isazi

@dreamer_ I assume there is a mismatch between the track and the underlying routable map, so TbT points can only be generated if the track is snapped onto the map objects that are routable, that’s why going via Komoot works.

Josaiplu

@isazi thanks for the clarification, for the Strava case is it supposed to work like Komoot ?

If I sync a gpx from Strava there is no tbt toggle available, maybe Strava did not add tbt instructions into the gpx ?

isazi

@Josaiplu I have no Strava premium so cannot check now. If you edit the route in Suunto App after is synced from Strava, can you toggle TbT?

Josaiplu

@isazi I just try

Toggle only appear if I change gpx and add a turn that contain tbt instruction otherwise editing the gpx by pushing the end a little by further on a straight line does not make the toggle appear
So yes seams that Strava gpx does not contains any tbt instructions Komoot change the path, damn seems that there is no practical solution to have tbt on competitions or other athletes gpx

dreamer_

There’s an inconsistency here. TBT notifications do only have use when running a race. If TBT notifications are not working for those tracks, they do not have any sense.

You can plan a track with TBT of course, but that’s not the most usual case since you are probably training on most cases on a known place. And you don’t need them.

And even if training punctually in a new place, TBTs are not that important if you are training. It is not a race at the end.

It would be constructive if someone could also try a watch from another brand.

Polar has TBTs using Komoot. My guess is they are in the same boat as Suunto here. Coros has TBTs without Komoot and seems that Amazfit has just added them to the T-Rex Ultra (I don’t know anything about how they are doing it)

The thing is I had the Pace 3 but perhaps I’m just wrong and that feature it’s only a Garmin thing (for now, of course).

enriqueescoms

Obviously TBT could be a fantastic tool, but here with Suunto we run into two major obstacles:

1. Having to depend on third-party applications if you want to use a gpx not created in the Suunto app. With the consequent problems and inconveniences of not doing it directly.

2. The TBT function itself. That it does not announce the turns when they are really necessary.

Well, and a third obstacle that, although minor, also detracts from the user experience:

3. The insufficient size of the texts.

With all this and today, in my case, Suunto TBT is unfortunately a useless feature.

(Hopefully all this will change over time)

dreamer_

Just to confirm that TBT notifications seem ok when one way track is used (you are not repeating parts or you are not returning the same track you have gone). So if the track is not modified after the Komoot step, TBT on imported tracks seems to work but only in that case.

I need to check with real navigation yet.

duffman19

@dreamer_ I’ve never had an issue with routes that overlap/repeat and TBT. I just ran a lollipop type route today and had correct turn notifications both out and back across the same trail. This was from a route created in SA. However, I have also never had an issue with overlapping routes created in Komoot and pushed to Suunto.

One issue that can arise, however, is when navigating a route in reverse, the TBT notifications do not reverse directions. So it’ll say turn left when you need to turn right. I assume this is because the turn notifications are actually just baked-in waypoints and cannot be changed.

I’ll restate my assumption that your issue is in using GPX files that were not created using a mapping service. For instance, the UTMB GPX you mentioned above does not exactly follow the mapped trails as laid out in SA or Komoot or other services (which is just OpenStreetMap data). It’s just a connection of points overlayed on the map, so Suunto or Komoot can’t create TBT directions.

If, instead, you create a route using a mapping application by selecting points on a map, the application must do some calculation to get you from A to B using the underlying trail info. And this is when the TBT info is added.

Now, other companies may handle things differently. Garmin, for instance, can do route calculation on the watch itself (model dependent), so turn notifications are created on the fly. However, Garmin was notorious for creating far too many upcoming turn alerts, often giving turn alerts for simple bends in the path when no intersection was present.

The real, REAL issue with Suunto TBT is the timing of the notifications. As it is, the next turn is announced when you are just approaching or at the current turn, which is silly. The current turn should be announced at the current turn. Because, duh.