How are so many basic features missing? Are these on the roadmap?

[martintrail]

I have the Enduro 3 for a few months now. The reality is this:

@pbanon said:

Return to watch screen while recording an activity

Never used it

@pbanon said:

Pause an activity and resume later

Never used it

@pbanon said:

Customize activity buttons (like disabling the lap button)

Never used it

@pbanon said:

Night shift and/or red shift screen for at night

A die-hard MIP person. For now

@pbanon said:

More customizable watch screens (why so few data fields available? at least let me add data fields on the black and white raise-to-wake display)

Using just default one

@pbanon said:

Truly custom watch faces (not just modifying Suunto’s preset options)

Using just default one

@pbanon said:

More reliable message syncing (I see stale notifications all the time)

I have a mobile phone for this

[elbee]

@maszop said:

@elbee said:

like on a social bike ride where you have a coffee stop half way, or lunch.

A social bike ride, as the name says, is about hanging out with people – not messing with gadgets while you’re with them

What exactly is ‘normal use’ supposed to mean? Time, weather? You’ve got all that available in the data fields, in the Suunto App, or on your phone anyway. To me, it sounds like you’re kind of looking for a problem.

Ah, you don’t do social rides. That’s ok.

And configuring a datascreen just to get watch functionality is. well… your choice, I guess.

[elbee]

@raven

Ah. You want to ridicule other people’s opinions ….

[raven]

@elbee said:

@raven

Ah. You want to ridicule other people’s opinions ….

No, that was not my intent, and I don’t recall commenting on an “opinion.” I stated how I use devices and what I expect from them.

In the case of someone wanting to have a social ride with a lunch break, what I think would make sense is to record this as two sessions as I would do. However, then in the Sunnto app, have a feature to “view as one session” where one can combine multiple sessions.

This allows each “leg” of the social ride to stand on its own, each starting from a “cold start” in terms of HR, but also see the entire day as one event in case that’s important for say the GPS track to share as a social thing (where the people receiving just wants to know the route and not the performance).

The “view as one session” feature, could, in theory, handle several session events. The hypothetical “person who wants to see a year of rides as one event,” like a personal heat map, might also use this type of feature, which seems more robust than a pause/hold hoping that the system won’t crash and lose the data file.

However, my original thought, that I define a session as one continuous activity, and taking a lunch break in between would definitionally make two sessions, still stands as the way I view my fitness and I don’t understand the desire to pause/hold a session with an extremely long break, from a physiological point of view of performance and HR response.

What does one session give that two sessions cannot, especially if the “view as one” feature I propose existed? And my previous questions stand: what is the limit hoped for in a “pause/hold” feature? Can someone do this more than once? Ride / pause for lunch / ride / pause for dinner / ride? If it’s a multi day bike tour let’s say going a week, do you want the entire week as one session?

Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I don’t see a need for an extended pause the OP asked for, while I see a potential “view as one session” feature something that could both work as a substitue, and also be useful for other people wanting to combine multiple sessions into one view.

[aiv4r]

@raven said:

What does one session give that two sessions cannot, especially if the “view as one” feature I propose existed? And my previous questions stand: what is the limit hoped for in a “pause/hold” feature? Can someone do this more than once? Ride / pause for lunch / ride / pause for dinner / ride? If it’s a multi day bike tour let’s say going a week, do you want the entire week as one session?

Technically you are absolutely correct, but I think you take it too seriously not everybody uses a watch as only training tool, some people, hikers for example use it for adventure tracking and etc. So it is nice to have one hike in one “activity” even with stops for lunch dinner and etc. that is why we have pause button.

I also agree that extended pause in addition is not needed, normal pause is fully enough.

[raven]

@aiv4r said:

Technically you are absolutely correct, but I think you take it too seriously not everybody uses a watch as only training tool, some people, hikers for example use it for adventure tracking and etc. So it is nice to have it one hike in one “activity” even with stops for lunch dinner and etc. that is why we have pause button.

Does my proposed “view as one session” taking two or more discrete sessions and making a view of it as one thing solve the problem? If so, I’d suggest this would be a better approach — you don’t risk an OS crash losing the file in mid-pause, etc. — you could make different “combo views,” for example here’s “morning to lunch” and then in a different view “here’s the entire day,” and in another view “here’s the bike tour route for the entire week” etc.

Also, if one isn’t “taking things seriously,” then why bother recording data at all. Go out and have fun and leave the watch on the charger. If you’re going to record data why not be serious about it?

[aiv4r]

@raven I agree that “view as one session” would help, but is not there, is it?

I think Suunto moto is: “Adventure starts here” and not “Performace starts here”
Idk maybe you are elite athlete and you think about performace that much, but a lot of us here are doing it for fun of it and getting the data out of it. I am not saying you doing it wrong, I am just saying that different people have different ideas on how to use the same function.

[raven]

@aiv4r said:

@raven I agree that “view as one session” would help, but is not there, is it?

I think Suunto moto is: “Adventure starts here” and not “Performace starts here”
Idk maybe you are elite athlete and you think about performace that much, but a lot of us here are doing it for fun of it and getting the data out of it. I am not saying you doing it wrong, I am just saying that different people have different ideas on how to use the same function.

Earlier you said you agreed that “extended pause” isn’t a thing you require, so I’m unclear on where you an I disagree. It’s fine you don’t have the same definition of a “session,” I do. However, you have not explained to me what your definition is for comparison.

And while I’m a decent athlete, I’m not competitive nor highly advanced. However, what I am is a hybrid, multimodal athlete who does a number of different types of things. Here’s the current year so far:

I don’t typically trail run or hike, but had the opportunity to do it earlier this year while traveling, two sessions that took place on different days. A “view as one session” would allow me to see those together just for the map view of where I explored. But I still want those as separate discrete sessions. I’m not sure what makes this “overly serious” or “elite” in wanting this rather than a pause/hold feature I’d have to have kept going over a day to get these as one session in recording, and if I had done if that way I’d miss the nuances of how I did these two sessions.

My overall point is the OP is seemingly lobbying Suunto to add an additional feature beyond the current pause feature we have now. That’s fine but I’d like to understand the actual problem needing to be solved and not just assume a long pause/hold is the answer. There’s often multiple ways to address an issue one might have.

My stating how I view sessions, and how I both think it’s fine to have several sessions in one day, and makes more sense from a data point of view is to present rational why I think an alternative of lobbying for “view as one” would make more sense. Saying that I’m being too serious is kind of weird; we’re people on a forum dedicated to Suunto. I’d think super casual people not caring how things work wouldn’t bother signing up and participating in forums like this.

[pbanon]

@martintrail I’m the opposite, all of these are features I used on my previous watch and I miss having available.
This is my first AMOLED watch and I’m still missing my MIP display.

[VoiGAS]

@raven as I am a Suunto user and my wife uses Garmin I have a usecase: When we are hiking and go to a hut for a break she uses this feature while I hit Pause. The difference is that she has a normal watch during the break while I have a blinking Pause Screen. Also if I touch the buttons by accident the pause ends.
Not a big deal, but a nice comfort feature

[pbanon]

@aiv4r said:
Technically you are absolutely correct, but I think you take it too seriously not everybody uses a watch as only training tool, some people, hikers for example use it for adventure tracking and etc. So it is nice to have one hike in one “activity” even with stops for lunch dinner and etc. that is why we have pause button.

This is my use case. My primary activities are mountain based and often over multiple days. I like having the full trip in a single activity and especially one continuous GPX track. Also social bike rides as noted by @elbee above. The other nice thing about pause and resume later is GPS gets turned off while the activity is idle in the background, which extends battery life. For multiday trips, this is very nice.

[pbanon]

@VoiGAS said:

@raven as I am a Suunto user and my wife uses Garmin I have a usecase: When we are hiking and go to a hut for a break she uses this feature while I hit Pause. The difference is that she has a normal watch during the break while I have a blinking Pause Screen. Also if I touch the buttons by accident the pause ends.
Not a big deal, but a nice comfort feature

Yup, I started using resume later on my garmin when I kept accidentally restarting the activity.

[pbanon]

@raven said:
Wow, that’s not how I do sessions. If I completely stop and let my HR come to a rest from sitting down, then that clearly means I’ve stopped the activity. Your social bike ride is two sessions in my mind and not a single session.

I think this is the root of the difference for how we approach activities. For me an activity is not based on my HR, I track based on the trip I’m doing. A multiday traverse or overnight backpack is a single activity, a social bike ride with long stop in the middle is one activity, but a hike on two different days as in your example is two separate activities. It’s just a different approach based on what we want to get out of the watch and neither is wrong.

[aiv4r]

@raven i do not think we disagree on the point, we disagree on philosphy of using a sportswatch
But I also think that for example if I would do multi-day activity I would just start a new activity everyday, while if I have a pause for an hour to eat or enjoy the view with a beer/coffee I would leave it on pause.

[raven]

@VoiGAS said:

@raven as I am a Suunto user and my wife uses Garmin I have a usecase: When we are hiking and go to a hut for a break she uses this feature while I hit Pause. The difference is that she has a normal watch during the break while I have a blinking Pause Screen. Also if I touch the buttons by accident the pause ends.
Not a big deal, but a nice comfort feature

Right, but in a world where the proposal I offer, “view as one session,” existed, then you’d simply stop the first session, have the watch as normal, then start a second session. You’d then have the option to view as two sessions or combine to a view that would match what your wife has. Meanwhile, she wouldn’t be able to separate out her paused session if she wanted.

And my proposed feature would be in the Suunto app, so if this happened would benefit all Suunto users regardless of watch model, where a more complex pause/hold feature would require firmware updates for every Suunto model for the feature to exist. Which more likely means “on future watches, not the current ones.”

[raven]

@pbanon said:

@raven said:
Wow, that’s not how I do sessions. If I completely stop and let my HR come to a rest from sitting down, then that clearly means I’ve stopped the activity. Your social bike ride is two sessions in my mind and not a single session.

I think this is the root of the difference for how we approach activities. For me an activity is not based on my HR, I track based on the trip I’m doing. A multiday traverse or overnight backpack is a single activity, a social bike ride with long stop in the middle is one activity, but a hike on two different days as in your example is two separate activities. It’s just a different approach based on what we want to get out of the watch and neither is wrong.

Except that with my proposal, everyone has the option to do things “both ways,” so I can record sessions before and after lunch and see them as either two events or a single event. Your proposal means we only get one event unless there’s a reverse idea from what I propose, to “split” a session into multiple views, which seems more complex. And as I note earlier, I’d be concerned an extended paused event in abeyance would be prone to data loss, especially if doing other things on the watch. Asking for a week long “single event session” to be continually alternating between running then paused seems like asking for trouble.

[raven]

Here’s an example situation I’m curious how others would handle: you’re on a multiple day bike trip, and for the evening at a hotel to sleep. You want to use the pool to do some lap swimming, why not? But you already have the ongoing biking event.

Does the “extended pause/hold” system allow a different session to run in between the pause/hold, so that here you could run a separate swim session?

With my “view two as one” idea, we’d already have ended the day’s bike ride, so simple to start a swim session, then the next day start a new bike ride. Then later in the Suunto app, take both bike days and combine to one view. How would “extended pause/hold” deal with this idea?

[freeheeler]

I think you can all calm down. these ideas have been there for many years and obviously they did not make it to the watch since… chances aren’t zero, but when we observe releases we can imagine that they will not come too soon

[raven]

@freeheeler said:

I think you can all calm down. these ideas have been there for many years and obviously they did not make it to the watch since… chances aren’t zero, but when we observe releases we can imagine that they will not come too soon

It also seems the extended pause does exist on Garmin, so those who find that a mission critical feature can vote with their money. The proposal I offered as an alternative (although both ideas could exist simultaneously, which is why I was curious if my idea would be sufficient for others or if they would demand extended pause anyway, and if so, why) I think would be a novel feature no current sports watch does to the best of my knowledge.

I concur it’s likely neither feature request will happen, at least not any time soon.