First questions about the Race 2
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I’m on Day 2 of the Suunto Race 2 (I’ve been using Garmin Forerunner products since ~2009, currently have the 965)
Still trying to evaluate data quality, but the UI/UX is seriously lacking and this might me a deal breaker for me. Wondering if some of you all can help me with some quirks I’ve already found.
MTB data seemed in line with Garmin
Pool swim was not good. It missed a length in my warmup (I do a mix of strokes). And it missed my kick set. There’s no workaround like with Garmin (i.e. drill mode). Yeah, I can go into the app later and correct it, but if I sync the watch to TP/Strava then I have to correct data multiple placesThe phone message notification beep is driving me bonkers. There’s no way to mute the beep specific to notifications. (Garmin sends me the notifications, flashes the watch screen, allows me to see notifications through the watch menu, but I can silence the alerts). The only way to keep the watch silent is to put it in Do Not Disturb, which then means I have more fidgeting with the watch to use it… but it stays silent.
I wish there was a way to organize activities by category or in a way that makes sense to me, instead of it just being kinda random. And I wish there were ways to remove those activities from the menu (I selected “mermaiding out of curiosity and now I can’t get rid of it)
DND mode is annoying b/c there’s no way to program the watch so it automatically goes to DND. I have my Garmin programmed for DND at 9 PM until 8 AM and it just does it. Suunto…. I have to click on 2 menus to engage DND… not to mention having to remember to do this nightly. I like getting notifications on my watch for phone messages (it’s handy when I wander away from my desk/phone) but I’m going to be pissed when I forget the DND setting and a beep wakes me up.
Alarms – again, either all days, single use, or weekdays. I like being able to set an alarm M-W-F for my swims (I can do this on Garmin). So I have to remember to set or disable the alarm daily to customize it for a specific schedule
And the scary thing I found today…. Scrolling through the Activities menu. I saw my data (all good) and scrolled down and saw anyone who has their data public in my area also showing. And the app defaults to “see all”. Also, there’s no way to hide start/end points like with Strava. (I know, these people may just not care, or realize that this is dangerous…. but damn).
Watch seems fine but the user interface design is just bad.
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Notification beep can’t be customized if i am not mistaken.
Activities are ordered by last usage not by random. In Suunto App in sports mode customization you can remove mermaiding if you don’t want it. Than it will disapear from your list but you can still add it again like first time.
Section 6.10 of user manual:
Automatic Do Not Disturb mode
You can use the auto Do Not Disturb setting to automatically enable Do Not Disturb mode
while you sleep. It require sleep tracking enabled i think.Alarms - it would be nice to be able set alarm for specific days of week only. Maybe write suunto support with feature request but good luck with that.
At least you can change privacy of all activities at one click from Suunto App. And yes privacy zones would be great but if you choose privacy to followers only. And adds only people you know they probably know your adress anyway.
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@dreamer_ You have all the Spanish reviews saying that the GPS is great, in an area closer to your location, Spain, just check them out
Correrunamaraton, the Spanish DC Rainmaker:
“Suunto Race 2 utiliza el mismo chipset Sony que las versiones anteriores, y no creo que a Suunto se les haya olvidado cómo diseñar antenas. Así que podemos dar por cerrado el capítulo de recepción de satélite con un sobresaliente”
https://www.correrunamaraton.com/suunto-race-2/
https://youtu.be/d9N5rhLioZE?si=TNcztZaUMdMKmNyz
https://youtu.be/7SNCyUenFG8?si=exvXxhkl5SGebU5s
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@Joaquin thanks a lot for all these reviews. I really appreciate your effort finding all the reviews. I already knew about Eduardo’s reviews, I think he is one of the best reviewers in fact. And a very honest guy.
But I also think his profile is more related to triathlon (I also do triathlon but I’m now more focused in the mountains). So his reviews are nice but I need something more focused to the mountains and he does not cover that. Answers to things like the things I asked and @duffman19 kindly answered so nice.And I already knew about the still navigation pending issues, but I hoped they where already fixed, since it’s a lot I knew about them.
Those things were happening in my Race 1 watches (Titanium and steel) and my Vertical Titanium watch.
No reviewer is talking about these things I were asking. And I know about them because I do a lot of mountainering. Btw, as said, the T-rex 3 has solved all those things. Is not about Garmin’s routeable maps.The thing is in a trail running race It is sometimes very common to repeat parts of the track in different directions. That means that Suunto’s notifications are not working in those scenarios (but do work in Garmin and Amazfit)
Regarding navigation, there are other interesting things I didn’t mention and Suunto does not have (as said, I do a lot of mountainering and I know “something” about navigation that many reviewers don’t).
I. E. :
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When you go on a route with turn-by-turn notifications and say, well I do have enough, I’m going back, Garmin does already know that. The watch already says, hey you are out of the route and a bit later is giving you the way back notifications. Even if you have not completed the way out. Amazfit as far as I know, does this fine either. The algorythm of the watch does know that you are returning the track and It reverses the indications so the indications are fine for you.
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There are more things like notification remainders for TBT or even things like roundabouts notifications and reminders (yes, in an ultra trail race many times you see villages roundabouts). Those notifications are 2 or even 3 times in that second scenario. Or notifications to just go straight on an intersection and the 2 reminders.
I’m also worried about the GPS in very hard conditions. That’s why I consider DesFIt’s video very important (minute 16). In fact I’m really surprised because it’s like the issue is still there. I have tracks (but are from near a year ago and that’s why I was asking) where Suunto’s GNSS is not as good BUT only when the GNSS adquisition is lost many times and during a lot of time. That happened for me in tracks where there’s deep forest. If you look at @dcrainmaker’s review you can also see slightly deviations that Garmin does not have. And one very bad open water track, where I think the issue is there, and It seems related to the watch losing the GNSS many times. The algorythms in those scenarios are not that good with the tracks. What happens when you go with the watch to the mountains when the GNSS adquisition is lost many times during the time and you compare that track with Garmin and / or even Amazfit? There’s still something here for sure. Have a look again also at DesFIt’s video in that scenario with those big buildings.
So this issue means at the end that the total distances are wrong. This scenario means tracks that very few reviewers do and during a while. -
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Suunto has already solved the reversed route scenario. If you turn back, after around 200 meters the watch automatically adapts turn-by-turn notifications and Climb Guidance to the new direction. This has been in place for more than a year now.
Regarding GPS accuracy, it’s really on par with any top brand in the market. We haven’t detected systematic problems here. Please also keep in mind that DC’s skyscraper test environment is extremely sensitive, and results depend on small details such as the GPS assistance file from the provider, chipset conditions that day, or even wrist position. In those conditions you can “win” today and “lose” tomorrow without changing anything.
It’s also important to remember that in-depth reviews should ideally wait until August 27th at 10:00, when the final software with all optimizations and updates is released. All current reviews are based on beta software that is not fully optimized.
Finally, user experience will always depend heavily on the specific testing environment. For example, while you may find issues in your mountain use cases, The5krunner has rated our GPS as the most accurate in the market. The bottom line is that all modern dual-band GPS devices deliver excellent accuracy and are more than sufficient for 99% of people.
@Suunto Community Manager and Technical
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@Joaquin said in First questions about the Race 2:
Suunto has already solved the reversed route scenario. If you turn back, after around 200 meters the watch automatically adapts turn-by-turn notifications and Climb Guidance to the new direction. This has been in place for more than a year now.
This is true with turn by turn notifications, but not for Climb Guidance V1. (I didn’t have the chance yet to test Climb Guidance V2)
If you turn back, Climb Guidance V1 do not reverse on the main altitude profile, only in the zoomed segment. This results in having a data screen that shows you being eg in a red segment uphill, and then you zoom and find yourself in a green downhill.
Wearing SR with SA on Android 13.
Previously owned/tested: SV, S9, S3. -
@SergioB Yes, it does, but maybe not exactly as you expect. When you reverse direction, the altitude profile also flips, so the profile shifts to the left, starting again from the beginning (as you can see in the picture).
The colors on the main altitude profile do not change, but you can clearly see if you are going up or down just by looking at the profile itself. At the same time, the sections adapt and show the correct color according to the new direction.
Climb Guidance v2 is different, because the purpose there was to personalize sections based on the direction and user-created waypoints. That’s why in this case the profile only changes direction, not the colors.
For case 1, we are aware of this, and hopefully in the future we can make the main altitude profile colors also change when reversing direction, since that would be more intuitive.
@Suunto Community Manager and Technical
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@Joaquin please, read @duffman19 's posts.
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Auto-reverse function was implemented but It is not solved. So work has been done but It is not solved.
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There are not TBT notifications on imported GPX tracks (this is very important when you import a race track)
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There are not POIs by default, street names,… I don’t find this very important, but all are missing too.
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And the alarms thing is still missing. That means that almost everything is like It was before. There’s some work but It is not enough at all (regarding about these things)
About the overall GNSS accuracy It was very good for me but there was a BUT. But as said, please read It further Joaquin. I’m not speaking about an overall GNSS accuracy scenario, but only about a very specific one (that is very important for mountainering)
That BUT was only when the GNSS adquisition was lost many times and during an important time. That’s why I’m saying DesFIt’s video is so important, when he tests the watch in those big buildings. That scenario matches the super bad tracks in open water of some reviewers when you lost the GNSS many many times and during a lot of time (and a time that can be more in one reviewer than other one).
As said, this was also happening for me in deep forest but it’s a while from that. That second part is true. But I’m really surprised to see bad tracks again, because that issue was there before. The thing is that very very few reviewers do those kind of specific tests but I faced that . What I’m explaining and what you see in those tracks I’m talking about is very valuable feedback that your developers and testers should keep in mind. Please talk It internally but have a good look at this thing because in the past there was something there and (looking at those tracks) It seems that It is still something there, for sure.
Speak internally with your developers and testers that, just that. This is feedback for something to look at. You ha e the tracks, they should be looked at.
It is important once we see the bad open water tracks (again as many many times) and that very bad track in those big buildings. This issue has been there in the past. DCR speaks many many times about this in openwater in fact. -
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@SergioB other option, if you carry your phone with you, is to simply edit the route in the app and invert its direction. In just a few seconds the route will automatically update on your watch without the need to stop the activity.
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@dreamer_ My colleague @pavel.samokha can explain about turns in GPX files, he is an expert, but basically if the turns are in GPX they will be in the Suunto app.
We’ve discussed this internally many times. Some brands like Amazfit or Polar create turns based purely on the curve angle, which often results in unnecessary or misleading instructions. Coros doesn’t even display most turns correctly when exporting a GPX, showing the limitations of that approach.
Creating turns only by curve degree can be risky and is not the solution we want. The only brand doing it really well is Garmin, which we understand is using map data rather than curve angles.
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@Joaquin btw. Thanks a lot for the very nice answers.
One thing only. Amazfit had fixed al the TBTs in the last updates (at least for trail running, I don’t need the faster scenarios but I understand what you are talking about. The thing is they do work, or it seems. I don’t know if their approach is good or bad, speaking technically). They do work even in imported GPX are working by default. I tested this throughly and they were working incredible nice (at least in the last update, I don’t have their devices anymore due to some bugs and missing things I didn’t like). Garmin goes a lot further though. But then, Garmin maps are somehow slow (I read something about the CPU they are using as the cause, but I don’t have the reference)
But the thing is, Suunto has done a fantastic job. But there are some details to have to look at yet
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@dreamer_!
We continue working on it!!
THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR FEEBACK
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Thanks @Joaquin , I was aware of the options of reversing the route with the phone. Overall I’m very satisfied with my SR, and the “issue” of reversing the route is not bothering that much (i’m not turning back that often, and when happens I can use the phone “procedure”). So no problem at all for me, I was just trying to underline what could be fixed/improved in the future!
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@SergioB full agree, we continue improving Climb Guidance
stay tuned -
@duffman19 Suunto has this as well. It’s on navigation
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I wasn’t referring to creating your own POIs. I know those exist and use them frequently. We were referring to POIs and landmarks that are native to the on-watch maps. Things like road names, peaks, towns, etc. that are visible without having to create your own POIs in the app. This is one step below routable maps and what other companies have started to add to their mapping experience.
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@duffman19 this would be awesome feature, because if you have offline map downloaded, and it is just “blind” map without any labels, it is hard to use it for any navigation when you are lost.
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@Tomas5 is not only about labels.
Actually all brands are putting some POIs by default. I.e: when you are in the maps, you can not only see street names, but water fountains, bus/train stations, pharmacies,…there are some interesting use cases. The most interesting one for me is just the water fountains while trail running. I like a lot to train in the mountains and see there’s a fountain near. The rest is not that important for me but I understand that It could be for hikers and people that does a lot of mountainering.At the end, Suunto has the mountains in the heart, and the Race and Vertical watches cost between 500 and 800 euro…If there are cheaper watches that can fix all the navigation things we were talking about, Suunto should (of course)
And now even more, when Suunto’s watches are better than ever. Perhaps we see a fix soon and the Vertical 2 , has everything in by default. I have a very big interest in that watch
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Maybe I am not educated enough but please enlighten me how you use these small screens for navigation where labels are useful and important?
I use only the loaded track and follow it. If there is a complicated junction the map helps me to decide which way to go. Zoom level is 25-100m. I use it this way. No more no less. This simple.
Do you check the street or track labels while walking/running/cycling? If I zoom out to get a broader view the labels are disappear on my Garmin. They are not useful any more. I always have a phone on me where I can check the map with every feature’s name. I used twice on device route planning but it was pain in the but. It was a Garmin Edge 830 and a Fenix 7X. Phone is more useful. Usually I plan my tracks at home. If on site route planning is needed I always used my phone to do that not my Garmin.
Now I have Race 2. My only pain is it is not possible to send new track to the watch without internet connection on iOS. I asked support about it. They sent me a long answer. On iOS there is some file handling limitation. Android is ok in this regard. If it will be solved it would become a more outdoor watch.
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@szleslie this is valid point, i see it only like last case scenario. I can imagine that you are in mountains, not sure how to continue with hike. No internet connection and you have offline maps in watch. So you can look around for some known point, maybe some peak, lake, or something that will help you to get better orientation. And than another scenario, you have created path in phone and on the route there may be some interest point like waterfalls, lakes etc but you didn’t create POIs for each. So it can just help you estimate how far it is to this points. Currently i don’t have watch with offline maps but i can imagine this scenarios to be usefull. Phone is best in backpack, watch is on wrist available all the time to check.
