HRV on Vertical

pilleus

My Suunto HRV score this morning was 16ms. The HRV app was 50ms.

I use for testing the Android app “Sleep as android” and a Polar Verity Sense for capturing the heart rate.

The result is 51 ms regarding all the captured values of the night. But regarding the low values in the deep sleep phases, where the heart is running free without disturbing influences or movements, the result is 29 ms.

So there are different results within one app and with the same data.

We may ask Suunto, what kind of calculation is the base of the hrv shown on the Vertical …

mikekoski490

@herlas Just as @Swaddy61 mentioned, a small difference can be accepted as +/- margins of error.

Your score is 74ms vs 71ms. Totally acceptable variance, and both scores are within a healthy range for HRV.

Mine is a score of 16ms vs 50ms. Im no scientist but I dont think that’s an OK variance. Not only a difference of 34ms, BUT the low score, according to online resources, would indicate catastrophic health trend lol.

We need to keep in mind that there are different types of HRV metrics, for example one app can measure rMSSD HRV, other a different metric. And the values are different based on that. So if one App measures 50 and other 20, it can be still correct. So we would need to know the type of metric Suunto measures to be able to compare. At least that’s what I think. Maybe I am wrong.

Swaddy61

@tomasbartko In principle I agree. I think the challenge is that some people appear to be having near normal readings - it would be interesting, perhaps, for those people to do a comparison using the Elite App, to see if there HRV is even higher on there!

Last night my SV gave me an HRV score of 30 (the highest I have seen in the short time I have had the SV), and Elite gave me 61, the highest since I have been tracking on Elite too. So again, there seems to be linearity between the two, just with a big offset. I’ll track both for the next weeks, and if the linearity continues, I will at least be able to trust the SV figures as guidance for my training, rather than as an absolute figure.

@Swaddy61 yes I see similar numbers in SV and Elite HRV, if one goes up, other goes linearly up as well. And vice versa. I think it’s an interesting idea to know what would others with high readings with Vertical measure in other apps.

Todd Danielczyk

@Swaddy61 I am one of the fortunate ones where my HRV seems to track well along with my sleep. Everything seemed to track better once I adjusted my resting heart rate up by 7 points (stock 60 bpm moved to 67 bpm)

I started tracking HRV right after the update to get my 14 day baseline and then I got slammed at work which also affected my sleep pattern. It tracked all of this.

This week I got back on schedule but had a late night dinner with drinks on Wednesday and sure enough, it shows up. By no means am I am athlete but I’m a relatively active 46 year old so the numbers are in line with my age/ activity level

Swaddy61

@Todd-Danielczyk If you have a Polar H10 belt then it would be really interesting if you downloaded the (free!) Elite HRV App and took a reading for comparison.

Todd Danielczyk

@Swaddy61 thanks for the suggestion. I paired my strap with the app and just did a quick comparison and it looks about 20-30 pts higher than my Vertical does.

Screenshot_20231209_074643_Elite HRV.jpg

Swaddy61

@Todd-Danielczyk - Thanks for doing that. Your results would appear to be in line with Mikekoski490 and me, in that SV is 20 - 30 pts lower than Elite. I’ll track the linearity between the two for a week or so, and then hopefully will be able to trust the SV figures from a ‘trending’ point of view, rather than absolute.

As has been said before, if the SV values were ‘Absolute’ several of us would be in hospital by now!

Todd Danielczyk

@Swaddy61 I’ll join in on the days correlation (who doesn’t love science and statistics!) So I’ll keep a chest strap on the night stand.

I’ll do morning side by side comparisons to see if we can’t get a plot going but it seems to line up from what we are seeing. I’m more of a trend versus an absolute kind of guy so as long as it tracks I’m less concerned about the raw number (just so you know how I think )

Brad_Olwin

@Stefan-Kersting said in HRV on Vertical:

Yes a lot is individual. When skiing with my buddies they are laughing at me because of my high max HR. I am 47 and when pushing myself I can have a HR of 194 (measured with belt). I was litt worried about that because usually you calculate max HR = 220-age. And that does not work for me. I read something about that this formula is not up to date any more and so I was less worried about my HR. I think it is the same with the HRV.

Both max HR and HRV average will be determined more by genetics than by anything else. I am 66 and my max is near 180, when I was in my early 40s it was in the low 190s. I have friends much younger and faster than me that have max HR in the high 160s.

Mads Hintz-Madsen

@Todd-Danielczyk you cannot compare the absolute HRV numbers from Suunto and HRV Elite.

Suunto reports the HRV in milliseconds while the HRV Elite app reports a HRV score which has no unit. It is a score which is normalized to be between 0 and 100. They take the RMSSD measurement (in milliseconds) and apply the natural logarithm to this value and then do some normalization.

So you can only compare the trend between the Suunto measurement and the HRV Elite measurement just as you are suggesting. These values are apples and oranges

Todd Danielczyk

@Mads-Hintz-Madsen I agree 100%. For me the Vertical has been tracking well with my sleep and daily “feel”. I have been more than happy with the data I have gotten from it since the last firmware update. My sleep and HRV been reading very consistent to my daily life. Days I’ve been busy with work, dehydration, alcohol consumption and late nights have shown worse HRV. Regiment structure shows better HRV.

I think the little experiment we discussed is to show the variance between the two testing types so that we can put the “XYZ shows a way better number than my Vertical does”. If one method reads statistically higher on trend then the other we can say it makes sense.

For me the track is more important than the individual point. So far the Vertical is tracking very well for me.

mikekoski490

@Mads-Hintz-Madsen Thanks for this explanation. I also just found in the deep list of results graphs on Elite HRV one that shows rMDSS, which shows the same values as Suunto (and matches Suuntos explanation in SA)

You are right. HRV score and rMDSS are different values/scores but based on the same calculations/test, and its the trend we need to pay attention to.

Back to Suunto app!

Swaddy61

@mikekoski490 @Mads-Hintz-Madsen Agree 100%, and also about the Elite App. And I am also getting very close correlation between the Suunto HRV value and the Elite rMDSS, so I think we can now safely rely on the Suunto App trends as our guide.

Good work all!

MiniForklift

I’m just about to watch this video as I’ll admit I’m not fully up to speed with understanding everything about HRV. FWIW I follow him on YouTube and he’s usually right on the money

Heart Rate Variability (HRV): Measure Your Autonomic Nervous System (ANS)

0:00 Introduction: Heart rate variability explained
0:10 What is HRV?
1:47 What does an HRV device do?
7:05 Learn more about HRV in our training videos

"Today, I want to introduce you to something called heart rate variability (HRV).

HRV is a measurement of the variations between the heartbeats. There are different time distances between your heartbeats.

The more varied the timing is between the heartbeats, the healthier a person is, and the higher the HRV is. The less varied the timing is, the less healthy the person is, and the lower the HRV is.

HRV measures the autonomic nervous system. It has been well-researched and can help a person understand their ability to adapt to and recover from stress.

Many people use this technology to determine whether or not their body can handle the stress of working out on a given day. Maybe they can handle doing high-intensity training one day, but their body would do better with a day off or with low-impact exercise the next.

There are many different lifestyle changes you can make to help improve your overall health. HRV technology can help give you feedback to see if what you’re doing is actually benefiting you. It can even tell you your biological age and rate of aging.

You really can’t take your health to the next level if you can’t measure it. This is a fantastic and easy-to-use tool to help you do that right at home."

ggrego

@MiniForklift bonjour j’ai juste une question au sujet de ces hrv est il possible de réinitialiser les score de vfc ?

Tieutieu

@ggrego les valeurs vont s’actualiser progressivement toutes seules (premières mesures après 14 jours, puis tu as la valeur moyenne des 7 derniers jours, et ensuite la plage de VFC s’actualise sur 60 jours courants)

(probably only a hard reset would also reset VFC values)

ggrego

@Tieutieu ok merci

Mff73

@Tieutieu said in HRV on Vertical:

@ggrego les valeurs vont s’actualiser progressivement toutes seules (premières mesures après 14 jours, puis tu as la valeur moyenne des 7 derniers jours, et ensuite la plage de VFC s’actualise sur 60 jours courants)

(probably only a hard reset would also reset VFC values)

I will continue in English for more global question.
Not just for you @Tieutieu, 🤭.
Is the HR normal range calculated during the 14 first days, is also updated in case it “changes”?
Otherly said, what is “normal” for 14 days, will it stay normal forever?
I did’t really note what was my normal zone from beginning, but it seems not to have changed (which could be normal… Or not)