New software update for S9P-S9B-S9-S5P-S5 and S3 devices 2.20.28

Argo320

@freeheeler thanks for the tip

cosme.costa

@cosme-costa said in New software update for S9P-S9B-S9-S5P-S5 and S3 devices 2.20.28:

@mff73 I just have checked and like @freeheeler the zones are still the same.

If nothing changes, on Saturday and on Monday I want to do some trail runs with good ascent, will see how it behaves.

Thanks!!

Well, I think that VO2max, at least for me, is not working well with Trail Running. On Saturday I run 20.1 km with +1048 m, 6.06/km pace and avg HR 156 ( 23% Z5, 56% Z4 and 18% Z3) and my VO2max 55.5, then on Monday I did 20.86 km +989 m, 5.59/km pace and avg HR 152 (15% Z5, 51% Z4 and 28% Z3) and VO2max went down to 54.3, so 1.2 less for what I consider quite similar conditions.
My VO2max was fluctuating around 58.5 normally before the firmware update, which is quite accurate with my last lab test (59.9). The new values are really going against my feelings and times/pace.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@cosme-costa maybe some hiking or walking in between afects it ?

freeheeler

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos
while you mention it: I did an uphill “run” followed by a downhill “run” without starting a new activity and VO2max went down compared to my previous activity.
I couldn’t go any faster uphill and HR was very high compared to my usual rolling runs. but the descent was very technical and I could barely walk, it was sometimes scrambling.
I understand VO2max as the maximum possible. But if things like slower pace or a “weak minute” during a run impact VO2max, then it would rather be a VO2average, no?

and similar question for NGP. I assume descents are also normalized. while we can run faster on flattish descents, the steeper it gets, the slower I run, especially on dirt, gravel or even loose rocks and dried leaves.

DMytro

@freeheeler I’m afraid terrain is a limitation one cannot account for.

freeheeler

@dmytro
I think so, too… NGP for downhills will work for downhills where you can run my that much faster as it would slow you down in uphills.

and I think I will never understand the VO2max calculation

DMytro

@freeheeler I wish there’d be a toggle for that. Or, just like polar does it, a set of dedicated tests without the use of firstbeat’s fancy algos.

freeheeler

@dmytro
wishlist: more toggles
…I will do the Polar VO2max, soon. Last time I did it (with verity sense) it showed a very poor result as I did it few hours after a run. Since it is based on rest HR and I have a quite high post workout HR, I suspect it was not as intended by Polar

DMytro

@freeheeler you say, you don’t need a watch to do such test?

Brad_Olwin

@cosme-costa I have a lab test for VO2 Max at 56, and a lot of data with both a Suunto 9Peak as well as now a Garmin Epix 2. With the Suunto my values typically bounce between 45 and 50. I am now doing a fair bit of vertical that is technical so downhill speeds are not fast, I see my VO2 dropping when I do these runs. I am in a Tempo block now for training (almost done) where I am not running much over LTR and that has dropped my VO2Max as well. The highest values I get are interval speed work on flat terrain as intervals on hills do not provide as high a VO2Max value.
The Garmin seems a little less sensitive as I am typically 46-50 for VO2Max but I am losing there too as soon as I stopped doing intervals. I have a major anaerobic deficit. (One of the many things I dislike about the Garmin as there is no recourse. It seems geared completely to road running).

So, I would not worry too much about your values, I have not seen dramatic changes but am seeing mine drop as I expected even though I am more fit and getting faster on my routes. You are a strong runner so I would not be overly concerned about the data, the watches are only so good.

cosme.costa

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos you know what I do…. Yes I did a hike in between, Sunday, but I haven’t written it down because the values were the same than on Saturday, no change, 55.5. Do you think that it could have such impact?

@Brad_Olwin, eventually it is not so important and I know that can fluctuate (in a race the only important value is the total time, non all the other metrics are important). The thing is that with the previous algo, the VO2max in trail running used to go down a little bit less than now, and I always thought that was because it didn’t consider well the ascent, so I expected that the new algo would be more close to running in flat because it takes into account the ascent but it seems that is more sensible.

Anyway, thank you all!!

freeheeler

@dmytro
no, just the verity sense and the polar beat app… don’t know how accurate it really is… but then I don’t know it with S9 either, right?!
next time I have an appointment with my pneumologist, I’ll ask if VO2max was one value of the test I did couple of years ago with the mask and the spinning bike…

freeheeler

@dmytro
did the test this morning with Polar: 35
maybe I wasn’t relaxed enough after the alarm clock woke me up

DMytro

@freeheeler I see, so basically both polar and firstbeat aren’t to be trusted XD.

MiniForklift

My VO2 Max never changes on my S9B, no matter what where I’m at with my training it’s always been 53.9

freeheeler

@dmytro
I think so, as it’s only estimation.

that’s suspicious, too

isazi

Maybe we should move this to the VO2max topic…
Anyway the new firmware works great for me. I tried hiking with hills and some uphill running, and the value did not drop. It used to drop dramatically in the past (being that HR was much more elevated for the same pace going uphill), now it does not.

Likarnik

@isazi I noticed the same

cosme.costa

Yesterday I did a run (no trail running), 9 km flat out, not much more in me, I wanted to run 10 km but my running partner got injured at km 9. My pace was 4:04 min/km, and avg HR 163 bpm (47% Z5, 40% Z4 and 11% Z3) and my VO2max went from 54.3 to 55.2, so 0.9 up.

This was more or less what I expected, and I’m pretty sure that If I run some km mainly in my Z4 it will go up again. But then I have my doubts with trail running, will test more.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@cosme-costa keep in mind that the Algo afaik tries to find a best effort with good hr readings and flat ground. That’s it’s preference I think. I think as the FB Algo is a black box.