Maps with no contours (can anyone from Germany, Finland on Spain confirm?)

Honza

According to the update post there is a change where contours are not visible at zoom levels beyond 200m. I know it’s suppost to be temporary but I’m worried it’s there to stay for many months until resolved. I find this really absurd in outdoors-focus watch called “vertical” and would like to understand if I’m misunderstanding something or if it’s really the case.

According to the post, the change should now be visible in Germany, Finland and Spain after map update. Is there anyone from those countries who can confirm this for me?

If I understand correctly, contours are only visible at 200m and below and trails at 500m and below. That would make the map basically empty and useless at 1km and 2km zoom levels. Is that really the case? Or are the contours just further apart? Or does this apply only to some problematic locations? I’m really trying to confim if this is really a complete erasure of contours above 200m or not. Because if it is, I will need to make to not get the map update until it’s resolved as I really need to use the maps at the higher zoom levels and they would be empty except for major roads.

Thanks for your help.

Brad_Olwin

@Honza You are correct, but I don’t think it makes the maps useless. If I am using contours on the watch for running, hiking or SkiMo I would not use 1km or 2km to monitor what elevation changes I would encounter while out. Roads, etc are still present.

Honza

@Brad_Olwin I use the watch mainly in the mountains. Even running around my house near a village there are almost no major roads. Just one in the valley. Seeing the contours only at 200m zoom, I can see only the elevation I will encounter within the next 1 minute. I see no context. I don’t see where the ridge is, how far the to the top of the climb it is when doing skimo or if I’m near the botom of the descent.

All that should be visible at 1-2k zoom. But without the contours, I won’t see anything. The paths I’m running on are not visible at that zoom level, there is no city that close nor a road. I’m not trying to get a to road, I’m climbing a mountain that I would not be able to see on the map. I do undestand the need to make tradeoffs, but I’d be really surprised to see I’m in a minority on this in a watch that’s really made for mountain lovers that are climbing peaks. Not being able to see where the top is until you are less then 200m away seems really really bad

I rave about Suunto but this is honestly a huge dissappointment for me. I now need to make sure I don’t get the map update and pray that it’s resolved in matter of weeks, not months.

Honza

@Brad_Olwin But thank you for your quick reply, I know it’s not your fault and I appreciate the info

Mauerwegler

@Brad_Olwin said in Maps with no contours (can anyone from Germany, Finland on Spain confirm?):

@Honza You are correct, but I don’t think it makes the maps useless. If I am using contours on the watch for running, hiking or SkiMo I would not use 1km or 2km to monitor what elevation changes I would encounter while out. Roads, etc are still present.

You are in Colorado, aren’t you? And there are still roads nearby where you do SkiMo? I understand @Honza‘s concern and wonder how the area around the mountain hut Brandenburger Haus near the village of Vent in Austria looks on a Race or Vertical – here is how it looks on OSM without contours: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.8451/10.7805 – pretty boring!

Brad_Olwin

@Mauerwegler No roads, I do not use the maps much at 1k to 2k especially when out on skis or running. If I need an overview I use my phone.
I understand the issue and the change I think is setting the stage for more map details.

Honza

@Mauerwegler exactly. And now consider you also remove the name of the peaks and place yourself in a location that’s forrested. In the Alps, glaciers can hint on the topography. But in any forrested hills (my home Czechia has mostly this), basically the only info on the map would be water streams. Usless, unfortunatelly.

GiPFELKiND

@Brad_Olwin hey Brad ist there a Option to got the not updated maps Back with contour lines by deleting the updated maps in the App and watch? And install complete new? Is it possible to got the lines Back by installing without update? Thank for you information

Mauerwegler

@Honza Let’s count on the Finnish topography (forest and lakes) and that Suunto employees notice that what you write makes sense, to keep all those lakes apart! They probably know. This might very well be an „intermediate“ version of the maps to fix the black tiles issue, and they probably have a roadmap for maps that keeps them busy for a couple of months. But I understand that users are a bit nervous, because some things stay as they are and don’t change (I think of pairing several sensors of the same type, for example).

Honza

@Brad_Olwin you mention you don’t use 1k and 2k zoom but the contours are not visible even at 500m, is that right? I want to do just this last sanity check before disabling the wifi

Honza

@Mauerwegler Yeah, I do understand it was a fix. I just wanted to make sure I checked my understanding of this and made clear how frustrating this feels. Now lets hope this gets resolved soonish. I will disable updates until it is or until I run into other issues.

Brad_Olwin

@GiPFELKiND I doubt it, the new maps will be the default. Your only choice is to charge the watch sufficiently short times that the new maps cannot download. As I said before, yes this might be a bit of a problem short term but I do not use my maps at 1km or 2 km much while I am out running or skiing, they just are not that useful as there is insufficient detail. If I need the overview I use a map on the phone.

Honza

@Brad_Olwin disabling “wireless network” in the watch settings should also ensure the maps don’t update to this new version without contours, right?

maszop

@Brad_Olwin said in Maps with no contours (can anyone from Germany, Finland on Spain confirm?):

@GiPFELKiND If I need the overview I use a map on the phone.

So why have maps on your watch if they will be useless and you will have to use your phone? So why buy and use such a watch at all?

In the mountains, contour lines are the most important navigation tools. And it is at the 500-2000m magnification that they are most needed.

I understand there are some technical problems (hopefully only temporary), but your words are completely absurd.

GiPFELKiND

@maszop said in Maps with no contours (can anyone from Germany, Finland on Spain confirm?):

In the mountains, contour lines are the most important navigation tools. And it is at the 500-2000m magnification that they are most needed.

I understand there are some technical problems (hopefully only temporary), but your words are completely absurd.

Nothing more to comment hope for fast next map Update

Egika

@maszop said in Maps with no contours (can anyone from Germany, Finland on Spain confirm?):

@Brad_Olwin said in Maps with no contours (can anyone from Germany, Finland on Spain confirm?):

@GiPFELKiND If I need the overview I use a map on the phone.

So why have maps on your watch if they will be useless and you will have to use your phone? So why buy and use such a watch at all?

I don’t know your use case, but to answer this question - here’s mine:
I am often out in the woods hiking or mountainbiking. Other use case is ski touring.
I usually plan my routes ahead and sync them to the watch. Now with watches that don’t show maps, it is often difficult to follow the route if there are trail forks. I have been walking or riding into the wrong branch quite often before. Now with maps I get the trail network and know where to go right away.
While ski touring, I don’t care for trails. The altitude profile lets me estimate the remaining ascent and also the profile itself, while the map tells me if I deviate from the planned route.

I almost never feel the need to use the tiny watch screen like I use the map. This includes re-planning if I need to deviate from the plan and want to reach the summit on a different route. To get the bigger picture it would not work for me on the watch even with contour lines. I always have a printed map with me in the mountains (that I rarely pull out) and a phone as well, that I use sometimes as well…

In the mountains, contour lines are the most important navigation tools. And it is at the 500-2000m magnification that they are most needed.

While I fully agree to this in theory, it just not the way I personally use it. But anyway…

I understand there are some technical problems (hopefully only temporary), but your words are completely absurd.

Absurd maybe a bit harsh regarding the fact that other people have different use cases. I tried to explain mine.
Let’s wait for the higher zoom level contour lines to come back soon.

Plus - again: The current situation is not the desired one. It was a tradeoff between having black tiles and grey parts of the maps in places, or the disadvantage of the contour lines at >=500m zoom. You might understand that a black tiled or grey map is far less usable than one with missing contours at high zoom levels.

maszop

@Egika
Maybe a bit harsh, but I guess it’s not surprising when someone writes that it’s such a strange decision to remove contours from the topographic map because everyone can check it on their phone anyway.
This decision itself is a great idea, but only for April Fool’s Day

I have never seen mountain topographic maps without contour lines in my life.
I will write again, in the mountains, contour lines are often the only thing visible on the map. Without these lines, the maps look the same as in the 9 Baro watch

The reactions are quite harsh, because this is not the first, seemingly obvious function that Suunto has (unfortunately forever) removed from outdoor watches.

I hope this gets fixed soon, otherwise these maps and Suunto watches in general will be useless in the mountains.

Egika

@maszop It is stated clearly that the current situation is a temporary one. So I think from here on we are going in circles now…

Brad_Olwin

@maszop I and @Egika have both explained this situation. As far as we are concerned it does not make the maps useless in the mountains. I live in the mountains. Neither Egika nor I use the map on the watch much at the low zoom levels, 1km or 2km. These are our opinions not Suuntos and you are welcome to disagree. In fact, I would prefer the contour lines there as well but I would like to have some detail on the maps, names for example and trails at 500m is a great addition.
The forum is a place where we attempt to help, it is a forum of users and neither Egika nor I are employed by Suunto.
As stated before the change is temporary and is part of ongoing improvements in maps.
The reason they were removed is not because someone can use a phone. I hope after three responses this is clear for you. Perhaps you could use a tone in your responses that is less rude.

babychai

@maszop contour lines are important on topo map but if you got breadcrumb experiences, you should know you still can navigate without contour lines. so this map is still useful. contour lines is just a convenient tool for our navigation use.