Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update
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@Iggge I have a Suunto Race but I have the same issue as you. Although I don’t know if it is really an issue. I also see very low HRV measurements on the SR. With Oura I am usually between 45 and 60 (with lowest at about 25 and 100 the highest) and the fluctuations of the HRV value align pretty good with my sleep quality, training/live stress and being healthy or sick. On SR my range is between 29 and 32. The value is mostly the same every night on SR since 4 weeks.
But all of a sudden, my HRV on SR went UP three days ago, when I had a positive COVID-19 test and showed symptoms (from the daily 30/31ms to 40ms the last three days). At the same time HRV on Oura dropped significantly below my normal range to 20ms. I am also wearing my wife’s old Apple watch currently, until it is sold second hand. The AW and Oura show comparable HRV values for each night and the trends are the same. On the SR there is absolutely no trend visible, it’s basically a flat line, as the SR measures every night mostly the same value. With the exception of the last three days.
I am still unsure what I should think about those HRV measurements. I’d love to get rid of Oura (and the subscription), but currently I don’t really trust what the SR measures. On the other hand, 4 weeks of data is not that much to make a judgement about a metric, where the long term trend is important.
Also the absolute values cannot be compared between devices. It can be perfectly fine, if Suunto always measures lower values (or higher values) than other devices. As long as the trend is comparable. But that’s my issue: AW and Oura show the same trends (which align with my subjective feeling), Suunto is completely different. Also a 3ms normal range just feels suspicious
to me.I also see too much awake times each night on the SR, although it got better in the last two weeks. The first two weeks I should have been braindead according to the SR. Maybe there’s a connection.
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One week after update, sleep tracking keeps going perfectly spot on for me, far much better than before.
My HRV goes a bit up after few days of bad sleep and hilness, but is still no very “hight” (43) -
@Tieutieu if you have some nights with bad sleep, thr HRV should not get higher, but lower.
Or am i wrong? Normal HRV depends on age, but for me it should be between 55-60 (age 32) -
@wmichi I hear you. Love Suunto, but for over 800 dollars I am expecting more. My wife, and colleagues all have watches between 200-400 dollars and all have more stable data.
Have started to look at garmin tactical for the first time since I work in the armed forces, and need really good battery altso. But I will wait for the update and hope it fix this -
@Iggge yes that is what is going on, my very last nights are better, hrv is increasing
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@Iggge I think the indivudual HRV is very different, and it is not Easy to compare the value of two persons… look at this…
https://hrvguide.com/normwerte-herzfrequenzvariabilitat/
It‘s German 🥲 perhaps you can translate it? -
@SuperFlo75 I did translate it. Good reading! But I still don’t think the HR V is correct. Any idea how to test this?
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@Iggge perhaps a medical device, there are ECG devices which can measure HRV…
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@Iggge said in Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update:
Any idea how to test this?
If you have a WearOS watch, then you can capture your HRV 24/7 and regard the values as graph in a web interface. Correlatioins to heart rate and stress are shown very good and transparent.
Just install the app Stila out of the PlayStore and have fun (available only for Android). It is a project of the Ludwig-Maximilian-University in Munich.
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For me the HRV values from my SV do make sense. I state this because of the following reasons:
- I checked on Apple Health with the average values I had when I was wearing an Apple Watch (October 2020 until November 2022). And they are about the same (bit lower now)
- They are in line with (even a bit higher) than the values on the link from @SuperFlo75.
Sure that doesn’t tell that the Suunto values are 100% accurate, but for me they make sense, because of the mentioned reasons.
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@pilleus Thanks! Done that now!
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@Stoke80 Thats good! I want to trust my Suunto, but I don’t. All data is showing different. On my SV I have 140 BPM peaks, My fitbit none.
My steps altso differ alot -
@Stoke80 Apple reports HRV using SDNN readings. Almost every other platform uses rMSSD. These two statistics almost never match, with SDNN typically being higher than rMSSD, so they cannot be compared to one another.
I don’t think there’s any documentation as to how Suunto is calculating HRV, but I’d bet on rMSSD as it’s the more common and accepted number used by others such as Garmin and HRV4Training.
Here’s some info on the difference between the two stats: https://welltory.com/rmssd-and-other-hrv-measurements/
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Since I haven’t had much luck tracking sleep on other devices, it’s not so important to me. Plus, I know when I slept well and when I didn’t. Garmin probably worked the best in this regard, but it chronically underestimated my sleep.
The bigger issue is that you need to track sleep to get HRV estimates. I wouldn’t mind having HRV, since it can be indicative of a few things. Unfortunately since the update, its frequent that my SV tracks no sleep whatsoever. So I don’t get any HRV estimate either. Funnily enough, I had one night where is seemed to do pretty well for estimating sleep, but all the other nights have been terrible.
Yes, the watch is snug on my wrist, but not to the point of discomfort. I think the watch is tracking my min HR properly, but for running, the HR sensor doesn’t work well at all. It seems that the poor sleep tracking may also be linked to the poor HR measurements.
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Really strange that some users have such issues with inconsistent data. I can only say for myself that I can compare it with another device (whoop) and the data seems to be correct. I also have low HRV, but I am out of shape at the moment and also whoop measures approximately the same values. I am 37 and my HRV is around 38, so yes it can be low also when you’re “young” (not sure if I am). Plus it’s also genetics. My girlfriend has super low resting HR I can only dream of and her HRV ist always (a lot) hihg(er) than mine. Her Zone 1 ends where I am having already a heart attack. So the best would be a second device to double check and compare. I think it’s super individual and what works for one doesn’t have to for others… unfortunately.
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Mean RR Duration, Mean Heart Rate: Indicator of stress. Is typically measured during training and interpreted as a measure of the intensity of the load.
SDNN: Shows how well the autonomic nervous system can regulate the processes in the body.
RMSSD: Indicator of ability to recover, fitness and health. Shows how quickly the body can react to stress. This allows conclusions to be drawn about the level of stress.
pNN50: Well-founded measure of parasympathetic activation.
https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
Suunto Vertical Black Lime
Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium -
@pilleus said in Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update:
Mean RR Duration, Mean Heart Rate: Indicator of stress. Is typically measured during training and interpreted as a measure of the intensity of the load.
SDNN: Shows how well the autonomic nervous system can regulate the processes in the body.
RMSSD: Indicator of ability to recover, fitness and health. Shows how quickly the body can react to stress. This allows conclusions to be drawn about the level of stress.
pNN50: Well-founded measure of parasympathetic activation.
Although these values can be useful, I would not over interpret them.
https://uphillathlete.com/aerobic-training/why-we-stopped-relying-on-hrv-apps/ -
@Brad_Olwin said in Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update:
Although these values can be useful, I would not over interpret them.
I know and I don’t …
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@AnonVerticalOwner said in Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update:
Another night, another report back: HR was tracked properly for the duration of the night this time, and the sleep data is consequently pretty spot-on.
Another two nights, same setup: Still having the strap tighter than usual (i.e. beyond comfort), both nights the wake-up time was off by 2 hours. Interestingly enough, one of the nights the HR graph was blank exactly where I had to loosen the strap (by 1) due to numbness, which is from where the watch thought I woke up, despite falling asleep again. For the other night it showed a perfect HR graph, but was still off by 2h.
I’m not sure what to test next, having done all recommended plus what I could think of myself. The HR sensor and/or sleep algorithm definitely seem more sensitive, at least. This morning I woke up with my hand having gone numb, like, that’s how tight it needs to be to avoid gaps and be accurate right now. I’ve had the SV since release without the need for this and with pretty accurate tracking.
I suppose I’ll await some acknowledgement from Suunto (…) or — if I start losing sleep over it (ha) — bother customer support.
Over and out!
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@AnonVerticalOwner Did you try to shave the hair off where the watch is? For me OHR works a little bit better this way.
