Software release 2.30.26

Antoine

@Likarnik i have the same kind of problem and my training of last sunday does not appear in the first chart (TSS chart)… moreover the title is “this week” but it is the last week…

Stefan Kersting

It is a little bit funny to read about all the bugs and how wrong everything is with this update. Counting steps, calculating calories and ressources, TSB, CTL and so on. My question is who do you guys know what is right? I can’t claim that I know what is right for me. Do you all have performed a VO2 max test so that you know your metabolic status? Or is you reference Garmin that is just doing the same: using algorithms that are calculating/estimating a number based on the input every user does by its own. I mean, shit in-shit out… This watch is a kind of lifestyle product and not a med-lab instrument. All right, some functions should be improved but I think other watches have the same challenges. And do all you guys know what happens in the Garmin black box and at least that that is the “truth”…?

wmichi

@Stefan-Kersting Regarding TSS, CTL, ATL, TSB: Open SA, look at those numbers and compare it with the numbers in the watch. They are different. And if you look a little bit more closely, you will see that the watch always displays the numbers of the day before. If you do a training with the watch, the numbers on the watch are also not updated.

It’s similar with the HRV value of the last night. Sometimes the watch shows a different number than the app.

TSS, CTL, ATL and TSB is simple maths and as far as I can tell it’s correct in the app. All of this is a problem with synchronisation, not with algorithms, metabolic state or VO2max tests.

BrunoH

@Stefan-Kersting it is hard to say what is right and intended functionality when the user documentation is six months old.

I accept that VO2max is a crude estimate, but I’d still like to see the number. I am not seeing it anymore. I just sent email to support asking what do I need to do to get it back. I love VO2max because (even being an estimate at best) it has always been consistent with my feelings. And that measurability makes it highly motivational for me. Not looking for absolute truth, but an indicator of my deveopment. I even did a factory reset this weekend in order to start from the clean table but it is still missing.

My problem with CTL is that even after my morning run the CTL widget still keeps asking me to perform at least one outside run in order to provide analysis.

And the complaints I’ve seen about CTL and TSS are not about so much about the accuracy, but the differences between the watch and SA. Previous week’s summary in the widget being labelled as “this week”. But then again, we can’t know how it is designed to work when there is no reference documentation available.

Majkel Paszeko

@Stefan-Kersting We can discuss on how these parametrs are accurate but one thing is sure: they should match in watch and SA. And they don’t unless you reset watch every couple hours.
I’m back from my workout. Can I see how it improved my parameters? Yes, but in SA only. My watch CTL, TSB widgets don’t even know about my last workout while they’re supposed to know as first!

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

Tss etc values are off by one day. Known issue.

Does this clear the discussion?

far-blue

I don’t know how many other forum users are software developers so I just wanted to comment on what, from my perspective, Suunto have managed to achieve with this latest update and a guess at some of the context which I hope will give everyone some insight and hope Note that these are just my guesses based on over 25 years as a software developer - I have no insider knowledge!

On the outside this update (and the previous version for the Race when it was first released) looks to be some new ui, some performance tweaks and then, of course, the map layer on the navigation. The fact most people are focused on the new features and there are only really a few small bugs is actually massive credit to the Suunto development team.

The reality is that Suunto have almost certainly spent the last couple of years porting their entire codebase over to new core hardware, unpicking all the code related to the algorithms they are no longer licensing, researching, implementing and tuning new algorithms to replace them, integrating new hardware units such as the multi-band gps and, of course, also writing all the code for the new features. I really wouldn’t be surprised in 70% of the watch codebase isn’t basically a rewrite compared with the Suunto 9 (non-pro) range. This is a massive effort to basically “stand still” and get back to where they were 2 years ago but with a platform fit for the future.

On top of this, of course, the company has changed ownership and likely changed internal focus multiple times as a result. There’s been a transition over to the new App platform - and new features on the app - and at least some resource has been needed to keep the existing old codebase ticking over with new features (e.g. the SuuntoPlus guides and apps), compatibility and new hardware releases such as the Peak devices.

Now the new platform is out I strongly suspect half the development team have collapsed on the floor and then slept for a month but the company is now able to shift all that resource forward to hopefully more frequent feature updates, new hardware and happy times for the future

Software development is really hard and spending months or years basically rewriting stuff without forward progress and knowing your competitors are racing ahead can be somewhat soul destroying so, Suunto, thank you for all your hard work

Likarnik

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos does this affect my middle two pictures? <30 recovery >61 gains despite 6-week avg of 454 TSS? And pushing beyond normal limits where weekly TSS was half my 6-week average? If so, then this is clear. Thanks

Tomas Prochazka

@far-blue Amen 🫡

MiniForklift

@far-blue Best post I’ve read this month. Amen indeed

Frederick Rochette

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
Thank you for this message
Thank goodness it’s not the weather data
Please keep us informed as to when these bugs will be corrected.

Stefan Kersting

@far-blue thumb up for this

Majkel Paszeko

@far-blue What new platform you’re talking about?
New UI introduced already in 9PP almost year ago? Map module added in April with vertical release? Or these couple widgets added/reorganized with recent race release?

far-blue

@Majkel-Paszeko The 9 Peak Pro is, as far as I can tell, the first of the new generation platform watches on which the Vertical and the Race have been based. This is why the 9 Peak, Baro and 5 Peak won’t be getting the new features but the 9PP will.

sartoric

@Majkel-Paszeko said in Software release 2.30.26:

@far-blue What new platform you’re talking about?

hardware platform I suppose

BastMaSVSRS9PP

@wmichi I’m wondering if Suunto did this on purpose showing TSS etc from the day before on the watch. It’s not intuitive but wondering if there is some logic behind it I don’t understand. No excuse here just wondering…

BastMaSVSRS9PP

@far-blue Amen well said

Majkel Paszeko

@BastMaSVSRS9PP some explenation i heard from our local fb group moderators: that metrics in SA can be collected from multiple watches, co CTL, TSB is being calculated individualy in the watch and only sync from SA when soft reset happened. But it doesn’t convince me.
Metrics in SA should be always the primary “source of truth” whatever number of watches they’re collected from. Every watch (even if i use many and swap them) should pull these common metrics from SA on every sync.
While not doing sync for longer, watch should follow with its own calculations and keep updating metrics individually/internally so it shows very current informations always.
When it’s doing sync again, it shoul first send all missing trainings to SA, let SA re-calculate metrics, then pull them and let them override internal values.
Does it make sense?

Walter Samuel

I share the same opinion as far-blue. I would also like to add that Suunto’s development team will not be as numerous as, for example, Garmin has.

And still SV and SR are breakthrough watches! I like Suunto, I switched to Garmin once and then regretted it. Despite some problems, Suunto has heart. Just like the Suunto community.

The watch hasn’t frozen during activity yet after the update, that’s essential for me.

I would allow myself just two things:

I was expecting an improvement in SpO2. It still measures 99%. A useless feature, I wouldn’t even brag about it in marketing. Of course, I am aware that the watch is not a medical device, but even so at a price of over 500 euros.
Suunto metrics while sleeping. Fever today, passed the night, I feel terrible. And the quality of sleep? 72% with a heart rate over 70 and a sleep duration of 6 hours (alleged). I would have maxed out at 40% before the update. Some people are more comfortable with the new metrics. It’s probably subjective.

Thanks Suunto for the work though!

inkognito

@Walter-Samuel I believe that all metrics with new algorithms need to establish new baselines etc. Therefore, I would really give them a week or somethig before rating sleep quality and resources accuracy.