Software release 2.30.26

[wmichi]

Suunto has done a great job in bringing some (or maybe all?) bugs from the Race to the Vertical. And some of them are so obvious, you just cannot oversee them. The problem with TSB, CTL,… was the first thing I noticed and all I needed to “test” this, was looking at the app and the watch.

I think all of this is known to Suunto and the people testing these devices. If not, there would be something seriously wrong (I don’t think it is). Suunto simply ignored those bugs and released the update (to fix more serious bugs I guess). If known bugs are released as part of a firmware update, it would be nice if Suunto would add a “known issues” section to release notes, at least here in the forum. I think this transparency would be appreciated by users. If you release beta software, at least respect your users.

Please don’t understand this is as ranting. I have the impression, that Suunto now really started to bring their products forward with a lot of new features. For me it’s clear, that this also means more bugs. I am just asking for more transparency.

[nseslija]

@Jonathan-C thanks, I haven’t noticed that…

[pilleus]

@wmichi said in Software release 2.30.26:

If you release beta software, at least respect your users.

It would be a step into the right direction to introduce an official beta software program, so that the experiences of the users who are willing to participate could be collected and bugs could be removed. I would appreciate providing weekly snapshots of the beta firmware and would be interested to test those snapshots on my watch.

But in the current situation, I’m no longer willing to accept the bugs and to wait an indefinite period of time for improvement. That’s why I’m now sticking with my SSU, which was just as flawed when it was introduced and only became a usable watch after several updates.

Both Verticals (I wanted to choose one of the two, Solar or not) are being returned to the dealer today and I will stay tuned and follow the experiences of the users and I’m waiting now to maybe decide on one of the new watches in the future.

And last but not least, I notice an increasing rejection of justified criticism here in the forum, which I absolutely don’t like.

[Maryn]

@pilleus I also have an EPIX and I can say that the beta program has done a lot of good for garmin. The garmin devices at least those in the fenix/epix line really work stably and don’t have such obvious bugs.

[Frederick Rochette]

@jjpaz

Even the VFC is not the same…

• Last night is at 105 and 106 on the App
• Average is 108 and 109 on the App

I still have the TSS training load at 364, even though I’ve changed weeks (it’s wrong anyway, because I have 359 in SA for last week).
And I actually have yesterday’s data for CTL / ATL / TSB and for an update I need to do a soft reset…
I also have to recalibrate the compass, as I do several times a day
So we’re waiting for an update to solve this quickly, I hope. Will this be possible via a watch and/or SA update?
In any case, these data are not usable as they stand…

It would be great to have a response from Suunto on how to deal with these bugs.

[vjakub]

@Marcin-Byrtek Absolutely. I participated in Gamrin Beta programme which let you taste new features but at the same time brought some bugs. If the bugs overweighted joy of new features you could always come back to a stable version.

[Likarnik]

@Frederick-Rochette yes, this does not make any sense, look at these pictures:

[Antoine]

@Likarnik i have the same kind of problem and my training of last sunday does not appear in the first chart (TSS chart)… moreover the title is “this week” but it is the last week…

[Stefan Kersting]

It is a little bit funny to read about all the bugs and how wrong everything is with this update. Counting steps, calculating calories and ressources, TSB, CTL and so on. My question is who do you guys know what is right? I can’t claim that I know what is right for me. Do you all have performed a VO2 max test so that you know your metabolic status? Or is you reference Garmin that is just doing the same: using algorithms that are calculating/estimating a number based on the input every user does by its own. I mean, shit in-shit out… This watch is a kind of lifestyle product and not a med-lab instrument. All right, some functions should be improved but I think other watches have the same challenges. And do all you guys know what happens in the Garmin black box and at least that that is the “truth”…?

[wmichi]

@Stefan-Kersting Regarding TSS, CTL, ATL, TSB: Open SA, look at those numbers and compare it with the numbers in the watch. They are different. And if you look a little bit more closely, you will see that the watch always displays the numbers of the day before. If you do a training with the watch, the numbers on the watch are also not updated.

It’s similar with the HRV value of the last night. Sometimes the watch shows a different number than the app.

TSS, CTL, ATL and TSB is simple maths and as far as I can tell it’s correct in the app. All of this is a problem with synchronisation, not with algorithms, metabolic state or VO2max tests.

[BrunoH]

@Stefan-Kersting it is hard to say what is right and intended functionality when the user documentation is six months old.

I accept that VO2max is a crude estimate, but I’d still like to see the number. I am not seeing it anymore. I just sent email to support asking what do I need to do to get it back. I love VO2max because (even being an estimate at best) it has always been consistent with my feelings. And that measurability makes it highly motivational for me. Not looking for absolute truth, but an indicator of my deveopment. I even did a factory reset this weekend in order to start from the clean table but it is still missing.

My problem with CTL is that even after my morning run the CTL widget still keeps asking me to perform at least one outside run in order to provide analysis.

And the complaints I’ve seen about CTL and TSS are not about so much about the accuracy, but the differences between the watch and SA. Previous week’s summary in the widget being labelled as “this week”. But then again, we can’t know how it is designed to work when there is no reference documentation available.

[Majkel Paszeko]

@Stefan-Kersting We can discuss on how these parametrs are accurate but one thing is sure: they should match in watch and SA. And they don’t unless you reset watch every couple hours.
I’m back from my workout. Can I see how it improved my parameters? Yes, but in SA only. My watch CTL, TSB widgets don’t even know about my last workout while they’re supposed to know as first!

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

Tss etc values are off by one day. Known issue.

Does this clear the discussion?

[far-blue]

I don’t know how many other forum users are software developers so I just wanted to comment on what, from my perspective, Suunto have managed to achieve with this latest update and a guess at some of the context which I hope will give everyone some insight and hope Note that these are just my guesses based on over 25 years as a software developer - I have no insider knowledge!

On the outside this update (and the previous version for the Race when it was first released) looks to be some new ui, some performance tweaks and then, of course, the map layer on the navigation. The fact most people are focused on the new features and there are only really a few small bugs is actually massive credit to the Suunto development team.

The reality is that Suunto have almost certainly spent the last couple of years porting their entire codebase over to new core hardware, unpicking all the code related to the algorithms they are no longer licensing, researching, implementing and tuning new algorithms to replace them, integrating new hardware units such as the multi-band gps and, of course, also writing all the code for the new features. I really wouldn’t be surprised in 70% of the watch codebase isn’t basically a rewrite compared with the Suunto 9 (non-pro) range. This is a massive effort to basically “stand still” and get back to where they were 2 years ago but with a platform fit for the future.

On top of this, of course, the company has changed ownership and likely changed internal focus multiple times as a result. There’s been a transition over to the new App platform - and new features on the app - and at least some resource has been needed to keep the existing old codebase ticking over with new features (e.g. the SuuntoPlus guides and apps), compatibility and new hardware releases such as the Peak devices.

Now the new platform is out I strongly suspect half the development team have collapsed on the floor and then slept for a month but the company is now able to shift all that resource forward to hopefully more frequent feature updates, new hardware and happy times for the future

Software development is really hard and spending months or years basically rewriting stuff without forward progress and knowing your competitors are racing ahead can be somewhat soul destroying so, Suunto, thank you for all your hard work

[Likarnik]

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos does this affect my middle two pictures? <30 recovery >61 gains despite 6-week avg of 454 TSS? And pushing beyond normal limits where weekly TSS was half my 6-week average? If so, then this is clear. Thanks

[Tomas Prochazka]

@far-blue Amen 🫡

[MiniForklift]

@far-blue Best post I’ve read this month. Amen indeed

[Frederick Rochette]

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
Thank you for this message
Thank goodness it’s not the weather data
Please keep us informed as to when these bugs will be corrected.

[Stefan Kersting]

@far-blue thumb up for this

[Majkel Paszeko]

@far-blue What new platform you’re talking about?
New UI introduced already in 9PP almost year ago? Map module added in April with vertical release? Or these couple widgets added/reorganized with recent race release?