One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk Again : the 100m before next turn alert is the way it works today. There is no reason that you would be the only one not to have it.

wmichi

@BrunoH People “complain” here because it is a channel to reach Suunto. Here are people testing devices for Suunto and even people who work for Suunto. Of course users use this channel to communicate whatever they think could be improvements to the watches/app.

If it is our opinion, of course you can say pointing out bugs is just complaining in a negative way. I don’t see it like that. It’s valuable information. Some, maybe even most bugs will already be known, others not. And maybe there are workarounds other users can share. There are feature requests and questions because of confusing documentation (min hr/resting hr is a recent example). Also valuable information. To me this is not complaining but all just feedback for Suunto.

It’s just wrong to say people don’t have common sense (basically you say they are stupid), when they communicate that some features don’t work as expected. I would argue that most of this feedback is not just based on very few singular opinions. Like “I like the color pink, why is the background of the screen not always pink? We now have AMOLED! Make it pink!”. I think it’s one of the most challenging things when designing a product/software, to meet the expectations of a large user base of how things “should” work, that functionalities are easy to understand and somehow all of this also needs to look cool. That’s tough. But to make a product better, to be able to iterate, you NEED feedback. So I would say, the more complaints the better. But at the same time also the more happy people expressing themselves here the better. As I said: every feedback is valuable, even if some communicate it harshly.

Telling critical voices that they don’t have common sense would be the end of product development. I don’t work for Suunto, I don’t know anyone working at Suunto, but I am pretty sure this is not how people think at Suunto. Whatever you create, you have to handle critique. If you can’t, don’t create something other people should use. Just my opinion.

Olaf Gottschalk

@Tieutieu said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk Again : the 100m before next turn alert is the way it works today. There is no reason that you would be the only one not to have it.

I cannot tell you why, but this is not how it behaves here. Sadly. I would not complain if it was!

Suunto support also just noted it down and did not say that it should work like you describe…

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Tieutieu said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk Again : the 100m before next turn alert is the way it works today. There is no reason that you would be the only one not to have it.

I cannot tell you why, but this is not how it behaves here. Sadly. I would not complain if it was!

Suunto support also just noted it down and did not say that it should work like you describe…

I’ll let Race users confirm then. Please try again sometimes, It should work so.

sartoric

@Olaf-Gottschalk
I understand your frustration, but you have the most powerful weapon available to users to ease your disappointment, “Return policy”.

Get your money back and keep enjoying sports and your life.
You’re not bound to Suunto and its products, there is no reason to keep ranting and being unsatisfied

… I would go for this

BrunoH

@wmichi I am willing to assist here anyone who can behave. Sure, there are people here who can act as a channel towards Suunto, but none of us need to stand caps-lock sceaming about wreck features. I’m glad you have more patience.

You seem to have interpreted that complaning is stupid in my opinion. Nope, everyone can complain and suggest improvements as much as they like, but I want people to act civilized. We all are volunteers here.

I know it’s bad for business if people stopped buying a new top-of-the-line sports watch twice a year without proper research of the features, quality and known shortcomings. And that’s what I mean with the lack of common sense. I stand my ground, me and my old fashioned sustainability opinions.

Mauerwegler

@sartoric said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

@Olaf-Gottschalk
I understand your frustration, but you have the most powerful weapon available to users to ease your disappointment, “Return policy”.

Get your money back and keep enjoying sports and your life.
You’re not bound to Suunto and its products, there is no reason to keep ranting and being unsatisfied

… I would go for this

I would not return the watch if I were him because: it almost does what he wants, and he has hope (otherwise he would not post here) that some of his five points might get fixed with FW updates. That is my interpretation.

I find your suggestion to return the watch too harsh. Does not help him (unhappy with Polar) nor Suunto (why returned without comments?) – better discuss it openly.

fv4500

Not directly related with the specific questions discussed (sorry), but I need to say that I find the general tone used in this post… well… surprising. I see a lot of people readily available to provide experience, insight and suggestions, basically for free. I don’t understand this permanent “complain mode” in which people post in here, and the patience shown by members is phenomenal. Thanks!

ChrisA

@Olaf-Gottschalk I can understand you frustration. Products should work, not causing trouble and I think you’re doing the right thing by pointing the finger on those things. Since you don’t got valuable feedback from the companies (be it Polar or Suunto), I hope the forum here can make your experience with the Race more satisfying

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
No i agree with you I wouldn’t stick with a company like that either; and part of reason why I queried as you seemed to like what polar offered, they have a new product - but weren’t interested in it.
In fact have stopped using companies/products for similar reasons and never returned - plus I am not shy in stating why I don’t use them/their products either.

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
he pretty much does - per the piece I quoted, and as at least one other in this thread agrees. Highlighted wahoo - as don’t they make the kicker and isn’t that what you were complaining about in terms of connectivity with it and other sensors. This was your complaint - I did struggle to read and make sense of that - but maybe I misunderstood your point 4. The whole phrase in the " " (qoutation marks) is a quote from DC Rainmakers review. It is him stating it not me - and its him suggesting not to use wahoo due to its limitations and suunto’s limitations, whereas garmin devices due to their connectivity options can get around the suunto limitations. I only highlighted that part of the quote to make it stand out (perhaps I should have highlighted the whole quote to make it easier to see I was quoting Ray).

Jamie BG

@Olaf-Gottschalk
Use Suunto instead of Komoot - maybe because that would solve your route issues. When I have used suunto routes in the past (and maybe its changed - its been a while) I never had any issues with turn instructions.

And while I am now on garmin often when pulling in a course from an alternative platform you sometimes have to run it thorugh the garmin course builder to make sure than TBT is turned on and it then also seems to do a better job in ensuring the turns come up properly. When not doing so I have come across issues, in particular when running courses pulled from Komoot. So might be more of a Komoot issue than a suunto/garmin issue. You could at least try and see if that resolves your TBT issues - if it does then can at least work with suunto/komoot to help resolve the issue. Or not - your choice.

Tieutieu

@Jamie-BG This thread is - to my mind - a bit “over-reacting” thread. That is more often the case recently on this forum. But that’s my point of vue, and it is not a judgement of any kind.

Considering the 5 points that are discussed here :

1/nofications. Answers have been done. Ok maybe not totally satisfaying and need to evolve…
2/emojis. well…For sure suunto’s watches are first of all sports and adventure watches…not “smartwatches at first”. But ok, that’s a little point for those who care. But I’m sorry, I don’t understand how it makes the SR unusable.
3/sleep tracking…works fine for most users…(title is “one weekend and I’m sad…”, but "sleep tracking doesnt work most of time ?!!)
4/Sensors : ok no identification and it could/must get better…But come on, who appairs a sensor just in the middle of the crowd before a race ?
5/ turn by turn : I keep telling that 100m alert before next turn is the way it works.

If those points are more important and go over everything else that is great with SR :

for sure @Olaf-Gottschalk should maybe return is watch
for sure with any other brand he’ll find annoying things with any watch model

Anyway, I’m sure everyone here has and will help as much as they can. Me included.
But we can’t change : people’s buying behaviours and reactions to some feature’s lack or bugs.

wmichi

@BrunoH Well I think everything is still civilised here. To me it seems more people are using Suunto watches. And it will be even more thanks to the Race. But that’s also a reason why more unsatisfied customers might find their way into this forum. Everybody just has to deal with this. As long as it stays civilised

Sorry, when I misunderstood you. Actually I meant you said early adopters are stupid. But what would you do without early adopters doing the baby steps? The only real solution is, that companies return to releasing finished and well tested products. We as customers cannot stop to demand this. See it this way: this could be a standout feature of Suunto

There are quite a view posts where somebody complains about complainers, and for them it seems everything always works perfectly fine, for example sleep tracking. I read stuff like “it works for most people”. Based on what data? Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”. This algorithm stuff is highly individual just like OHR. And this is Suunto first take on their own implementation. It’s super important to have critical voices pointing problems out. Yes, I am more patient. I don’t care if some people “scream” their opinions. Let them scream. If I don’t want this, I don’t read it. And just by saying that this or that feature is crap doesn’t mean the whole product is crap (it is definitely not!).

Regarding sustainability: I would argue that nearly everyone who buys every year a new watch (or even more often, because the eternal search for the perfect device does never end for some people) sells the old one second hand.

ChrisA

@wmichi said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:

Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”.

And saying ‘Suunto broke the Race (again)’ because it doesn’t work for one person is the same thing, just the other way around .

I think it’s this way of ‘black and white painting’ (to stress a German phrase) thats’s not the style, communication usually takes place in this forum - at least that’s my impression. I always saw people here discussing problems in a more sensible, intelligent and rational matter, trying to find solutions or at least workarounds and not so much raging about the product or even the company.

Tieutieu

@wmichi said in One weekend and several bugs as well as missing features with the Race - I am sad:
I read stuff like “it works for most people”. Based on what data? Saying it works perfectly fine because it works for one person, doesn’t mean it works for “most people”.

I wrote that. I totally agree with you about OHR comparison in terms accuracy ; for now no sensor or algorythm works perfeclty on everyone.
My sleeping tracking works fine most of the time. Sometimes, it doesn’t. I’m off course not a “reference” and don’t own the “truth”…But in the same time it is not because few people complain about it that it doesn’t works.

Some metrics that our watches record make sens as “instant mesures” (of course distance, instant speed, activity HR… - that’s why I use chest strap instead of OHR for high intensity exercices).

But about training load, sleep, rest and recovery, we should not forget that it is a “long term” tendancy that makes sens.
That also why suunto coach uses 6 weeks tendancy to provide analyses.

So my point is : telling sleep tracking, or HRV…is not always “totally accurate”, it is not the main point.

wmichi

@ChrisA You are absolutely right. That’s what I wanted to say. It’s neither flawless nor a total fail. It is actually faaaar away from a total fail. Whatever issues I have currently with the Race, they seem pretty minor and easily fixable to me (ok, this might be naive. I am just a web dev not a firmware dev). Really those baby steps, @BrunoH mentioned.

I think you cannot say this about the Vantage V3 in its current state (constantly restarting), at least if DC Rainmaker is correct.

As an Austrian I know this German phrase Did I paint black and white? I hope not, that was not my intent. Actually the exact opposite. I find all those discussions interesting.

wmichi

@Tieutieu And I am also not a reference, just one data point where it’s not working so good. We are both right.

You are right, the trends are important. One night tells me nothing meaningful. But if out of 10 nights it’s 9 times off by 2 to 4 hours, also the trends are wrong. On the other hand: Suunto reports every night the exact same HRV value as Oura . Of course I could just look at Oura and forget Suunto for sleep tracking. But to be honest I’d rather have one device (the Race) and sell the Oura (subscription). I am sure Suunto keeps working on their sleep tracking. Hopefully they don’t break it for others, when they make changes.

Olaf Gottschalk

@Tieutieu said in [One weekend and several …

I’ll let Race users confirm then. Please try again sometimes, It should work so.

I did like 6 or 7 hikes last week, all planned on Komoot, it never worked like this. But of course, I will again “test” it as this is my usual thing when running/hiking/cycling!

Tieutieu

@Olaf-Gottschalk maybe try one planned directly with Suunto App to see if you have a different behavior