Sleep Tracking
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@nickk could also be hardware as the firstbeat stuff is all done on the watch and not on the servers…
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@jamie-bg Well, hardware doesn’t prevent S7 from having full sleep stages. And yes, I’m aware that S7 is running Qualcomm 3100 and not a custom processor found in the rest of Sx series.
Still, the presence of full sleep stages analysis from FB in lower cost Garmin units would suggest it has less to do with silicon and more with what gets licensed and deployed to the watches.
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@nickk Lower Garmin units do not use the advanced sleep tracking i.e. firstbeat sleep tracking, they use Garmin’s own inhouse sleep tracking, to which all reports I have seen suggest it isn’t nearly as good as the first beat sleep tracking.
Can’t find any details on S9 CPU and memory, so no idea how it stacks up against the top end Garmin and S9 in terms of power and resources and or the 3100 qualcomm chip.
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While I don’t know I don’t see an issue s9P using FB algos. However I would personally prefer a better algo from Suunto or a better algo in general as FB is licensed
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@jamie-bg This isn’t correct. By lower cost units I mean watches like Venu 2 and Venu Sq, which most definitely have onboard sleep tracking. As do (or should have it soon) entry level Forerunners. I think DCR was quoting Garmin in one of his recent reviews saying the onboard sleep analysis is coming out across their entire device line.
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I think the only truly better algo that exists out there is Fitbit, and even that doesn’t really give you anywhere close to real sleep phases. I’m not sure it will ever be possible to match lab grade polysomnography with a watch on your wrist. But even if we could do that, then what? How can you make yourself have more REM or N2/N3 sleep?
It’s like those running dynamics metrics. Very cool in theory but hardly something you can consciously change.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years all this faux analysis go back to where it had started a while back: a graph of your sleep movement, sleep/awake tracking (the only thing watches get mostly right), and a general sleep quality score that would take into account many other components such as duration, regularity, restlessness, etc.
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@nickk agreed.
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@nickk however
This guy
https://twitter.com/BStulberg?s=09
Wisely says
Part of the reason that so many people are so tired is because they track so many things. If you are tracking your sleep, then, in a sense, you are working even when you are sleeping. Same goes for eating, taking steps, and so on. It is an utterly exhausting way to live.
But that is another case and maybe why I don’t give a dime about all this in a personal level.
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Yeah…
I remember Alex Hutchinson (of Endure fame) mentioning some research stating people actually sleep worse and get anxiety about their sleep, because gadgets tell them how bad it was. You know… You had 20 sleep disturbances and have been awake for 90 minutes during your sleep… Your deep sleep was 16 minutes. This kind of stuff.
I hope the pendulum swings back. It’s about time we collect less data but what we do collect is actually pertinent to our well being. Trying to deduce your brain waves from wrist movement, or overall recovery from a randomly chosen period to quickly measure HRV isn’t that.
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@nickk yup
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@nickk said in Sleep Tracking:
@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Yeah…
I remember Alex Hutchinson (of Endure fame) mentioning some research stating people actually sleep worse and get anxiety about their sleep, because gadgets tell them how bad it was. You know… You had 20 sleep disturbances and have been awake for 90 minutes during your sleep… Your deep sleep was 16 minutes. This kind of stuff.
Yup - that’s me
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@wakarimasen and me sometimes.
- Oh shit , this night the guys came and I drunk 3 beers and look at my heart rate now. Trying to sleep and it’s f6373 like 80bpm. Oh man I am going to have a bad sleep again and how will I train tomorrow. I wished I had just watched a series.
Me a couple of years ago :
- yeah what a great night, I’ll sleep like a bird don’t even need to watch tv. (And it was like that)
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos
WHY IS MY WATCH JUDGING ME… -
@wakarimasen because you ask it to “guide” you.
I agree that it it’s guiding is fine, but ain’t then a point when you need no guidance ?
That said we are out of topic. The guys need help with accuracy in sleep tracking.
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I beg to differ! We are helping!
Why track accurately something that shouldn’t be tracked at all?
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@nickk of course you differ. And actually that’s great. Thank you for that. And mostly for the debate.
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Only joking @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
I find sleep tracking pretty helpful, and especially like to understand sleep phases. I’m assuming it’s also used to ‘inform’ recovery and resource levels.
Unfortunately, I find my S9B not as accurate for me, compared my old Vantage V. I understand this can be personal (and may be based on the sensor used) but am not worried too much, as I don’t want to stress too much about it.
I do wonder if the S9P would be more accurate though…
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I am currently trying out the Suunto 7. I like the sleep tracking very much! I know also already discussed. But again: The hardware of the S9P has at least the same capabilities. So why not improve the software to the same level? Please do not tell me it is a licensing question. If so, just get it licensed.
Apple Watch Ultra (currently on my wrist)
Thinking about going back to Suunto 9 Peak -
@patrick-löffler Just get it licensed… And who’s gonna pay for that? It was actually quite nice for Suunto to add all the FB pieces like daily stress, body resources, VO2 Max to existing S9 a whole year after the series went out. I don’t know another manufacturer, Garmin including, who licenses new third party bits for existing units and does so free of charge.
Anyways, it’s not just licensing. S7 being WearOS is a completely different animal (read: codebase) than other Sx watches. I’d imagine S9P and S9 are pretty much the same code. So, even without FB licenses involved, pulling features from one line and into another, let alone specifically S9P… I think it’s a tough ask.
Not impossible, but certainly not a question of removing comments around a code block…
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@patrick-löffler I think it was mentioned somewhere, that broader sleep feature analysis might come to s9p eventually, as well as 1s daily HR (and spO2?) tracking. Dunno whether the same holds for s9B and whether firstbeat/suunto algos will be used.
