Sleep Tracking
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@isazi Don’t doubt it, but I would like to understand
- it’s a bug or not.
- is my watch defective or not
- since with garmin watches I didn’t had this, how can I help to improve suunto readings , and does it matter to Suunto (can be isolated case and there is also a lot of people who garmin sleep doesn’t work for them)
Wake up times seem to be ok but sleep times not, and don’t think I have a pattern that could fool the watch (like being stationary reading or on the phone or tv)
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@isazi when you wake up at morning, do you get up from bed at same moment? In my case if i stay laying in bed, it counts as sleep until i get up. Doesn’t matter i am already awake and moving a little, maybe reading some news on smartphone etc.
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@mlatej Garmin used to do exact same thing until relatively recently.
But I would agree: sleep detection should be improved with regards to the watch being on the wrist. I had an opposite problem: I had a watch on my wrist but took a nap. The watch probably decided it was off since there was no motion and stopped OHR. It didn’t happen consistently though. Maybe because my naps were restless, or maybe because OHR interruptions while on the wrist were a fluke.
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos broadening the sleep times helped! Awake times now fit within the actual times I stand up! Thanks
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My today experience with S5. Usually watch thinks i am a sleep longer than real value. Today is oposite.
In reality i waked up around 3:00 am i went to toilete and had hard time to fall a sleep again. I fall a sleep around 3:45 am and than i was waken up at 5:00 am by alarm on S5. Don’t understand why watch ignored sleep between 3:45 and 5:00 because it was really hard sleep. Watch alarm almost didn’t wake me up as i was sleeping really hard.
Just for record i have set sleep time from 21:30 to 8:00 so it wasn’t outside of configured first possible sleep and last possible sleep times.
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@tomas5 Sometimes it does that, capturing only part of the sleep. Then, as you stop moving around, a sync or two later it adds additional hours. As long as you don’t fiddle with the watch enough to get “Good morning” sleep message.
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@nickk well i didn’t touch the watch at all during night. But since i had hard time to fall a sleep again, maybe from my movement they decided to show morning message but i didn’t notice.
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Probably this has been discussed already. Why can’t the S9P not have the same sleep stages as the S7. Would be awesome if it could. And taking it even further
please like Garmin a full night SPO2 measurement. -
@patrick-löffler I’d guess it has to do with FB algo licensing and firmware codebase sharing. S9P is effectively a smaller S9B, with a few sweet extras. So, it makes sense it would inherit the exact feature set of the bigger brother.
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@nickk could also be hardware as the firstbeat stuff is all done on the watch and not on the servers…
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@jamie-bg Well, hardware doesn’t prevent S7 from having full sleep stages. And yes, I’m aware that S7 is running Qualcomm 3100 and not a custom processor found in the rest of Sx series.
Still, the presence of full sleep stages analysis from FB in lower cost Garmin units would suggest it has less to do with silicon and more with what gets licensed and deployed to the watches.
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@nickk Lower Garmin units do not use the advanced sleep tracking i.e. firstbeat sleep tracking, they use Garmin’s own inhouse sleep tracking, to which all reports I have seen suggest it isn’t nearly as good as the first beat sleep tracking.
Can’t find any details on S9 CPU and memory, so no idea how it stacks up against the top end Garmin and S9 in terms of power and resources and or the 3100 qualcomm chip.
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While I don’t know I don’t see an issue s9P using FB algos. However I would personally prefer a better algo from Suunto or a better algo in general as FB is licensed
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@jamie-bg This isn’t correct. By lower cost units I mean watches like Venu 2 and Venu Sq, which most definitely have onboard sleep tracking. As do (or should have it soon) entry level Forerunners. I think DCR was quoting Garmin in one of his recent reviews saying the onboard sleep analysis is coming out across their entire device line.
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I think the only truly better algo that exists out there is Fitbit, and even that doesn’t really give you anywhere close to real sleep phases. I’m not sure it will ever be possible to match lab grade polysomnography with a watch on your wrist. But even if we could do that, then what? How can you make yourself have more REM or N2/N3 sleep?
It’s like those running dynamics metrics. Very cool in theory but hardly something you can consciously change.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years all this faux analysis go back to where it had started a while back: a graph of your sleep movement, sleep/awake tracking (the only thing watches get mostly right), and a general sleep quality score that would take into account many other components such as duration, regularity, restlessness, etc.
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@nickk agreed.
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@nickk however
This guy
https://twitter.com/BStulberg?s=09
Wisely says
Part of the reason that so many people are so tired is because they track so many things. If you are tracking your sleep, then, in a sense, you are working even when you are sleeping. Same goes for eating, taking steps, and so on. It is an utterly exhausting way to live.
But that is another case and maybe why I don’t give a dime about all this in a personal level.
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Yeah…
I remember Alex Hutchinson (of Endure fame) mentioning some research stating people actually sleep worse and get anxiety about their sleep, because gadgets tell them how bad it was. You know… You had 20 sleep disturbances and have been awake for 90 minutes during your sleep… Your deep sleep was 16 minutes. This kind of stuff.
I hope the pendulum swings back. It’s about time we collect less data but what we do collect is actually pertinent to our well being. Trying to deduce your brain waves from wrist movement, or overall recovery from a randomly chosen period to quickly measure HRV isn’t that.
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@nickk yup
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@nickk said in Sleep Tracking:
@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Yeah…
I remember Alex Hutchinson (of Endure fame) mentioning some research stating people actually sleep worse and get anxiety about their sleep, because gadgets tell them how bad it was. You know… You had 20 sleep disturbances and have been awake for 90 minutes during your sleep… Your deep sleep was 16 minutes. This kind of stuff.
Yup - that’s me
