Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@slashas said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

@aldnet run outside with GPS some distance with the same manner as you do on treadmill and watch will calibrate to you, after treadmill distance calculation will be a lot better.

yep that as well. But in the same manner. That is why I said the threadmill sometimes (especially on gyms that they are overused and not maintained) can also be giving wrong distances.

aldnet

@slashas wow, interesting. this is the same way Apple Watch suggest to calibrate. I will try, I have made some runs outside, let’s check if with time the difference decrease.

SlaSh

@aldnet for me for example watch shows around 15% more distance than treadmill, but I do not care much about it, as it won’t be spot on. If you want correct distance, pace and etc Footpod is your cure

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@slashas said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

@aldnet for me for example watch shows around 15% more distance than treadmill, but I do not care much about it, as it won’t be spot on. If you want correct distance, pace and etc Footpod is your cure

but also ask youseld why would you do such an investment for just the treadmill. A pod is fine for bad GPS or tracka nd field but on treadmill the treadmill shows the distance and pace.

I use a pod for track and field but for treadmill I just run (since also the pod does not do it 100% right) and then I edit the activity in MC.

In this case I have all data ok

aldnet

Do you recomend some specific footpod @slashas ?

Suunto Foot pod is compatible with Spartan?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@aldnet said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

Do you recomend some specific footpod @slashas ?

Suunto Foot pod is compatible with Spartan?

nope afaik. Perhaps stryd live ?

SlaSh

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos how about milestone? Should be just fine for treadmill, stryd too expensive just for it…
What a funny thing with live that for additional 100$ you can buy FW upgrade and live becomes regular stryd without wireless charging

oeagleo

I have had an Addidas BTLE footpod, but decided to try a Milestone pod. After some discussion with Meir at Milestone, I discovered that these pods are calibrated at the footpod, in other words, you set your watch to be at 100, even, or no calibration. Then, calibrate the footpod in the app, and it is calibrated for whatever device you use.
I know this works, for I have used a calibrated Milestone footpod with a Fenix 5x, a Spartan Ultra, and now a SSWHRBaro, and they are all consistent over courses that I know the distance. At $30 it’s one heck of a deal. Oh, yeah, I bought mine.
It would be good to be able to import all of the metrics of the Milestone into the Spartan, for they do track stride length, ground contact, etc.

aldnet

Thanks for the suggestions.

@oeagleo so, which data synchronize Milestone with Suunto, distance and pace? something more?

oeagleo

In my experience, judging from the inside walk I did yesterday, speed, distance, cadence, and pace show in Movescount after a “USB Sync”. The Milestone App also shows Ground contact, stride length, and foot strike data for runs. I don’t do run, as my knees don’t work so well anymore. In addition, the Milestone app shows graphs of Pace vs. Cadence, and Pace vs. Stride Length, and Pace vs. Ground contact time. Those would be nice to be imported into movescount, somewhat like the HRM-Run/Tri does for Garmin devices.

Darren_M

The easy answer to this is to add a setting to the Treadmill sport mode called ‘Stride length’. Essentially this is just a mathematical multiplication factor. One pulse from the accelerometer multiplied by the stride length and you achieve a set distance. Accuracy obviously depends on the accelerometer. However, it’s worth seeing stride length come to the watch settings as it will get you fairly close if the sensor is any good at all. Relying on the watch calibrating after running isn’t really a fix because if you run with someone slower, or vary your pace significantly, or even run up hill during a run, you’ll change your stride length accordingly and that has to result in an incorrect calibration. Also, the watch could produce estimated stride length from runs with GPS i.e. by distance/steps=stride length. I know from my Garmin my exact stride length at different paces, and they repeat to within 0.01 metres. With this stride length info you could alter the number in the stride length setting to suit the type of treadmill training you’re doing that session. The more data collected, the more scope you have for reasonably accurate treadmill training at different pace. Should be easy to implement, surely?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@darren_m said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

The easy answer to this is to add a setting to the Treadmill sport mode called ‘Stride length’. Essentially this is just a mathematical multiplication factor. One pulse from the accelerometer multiplied by the stride length and you achieve a set distance. Accuracy obviously depends on the accelerometer. However, it’s worth seeing stride length come to the watch settings as it will get you fairly close if the sensor is any good at all. Relying on the watch calibrating after running isn’t really a fix because if you run with someone slower, or vary your pace significantly, or even run up hill during a run, you’ll change your stride length accordingly and that has to result in an incorrect calibration. Also, the watch could produce estimated stride length from runs with GPS, i.e. by (steps/distance=stride length). I know from my Garmin my exact stride length at different paces, and they repeat to within 0.01 metres. With this stride length info you could alter the number in the stride length setting to suit the type of treadmill training you’re doing that session. The more data collected, the more scope you have for reasonably accurate treadmill training at different pace. Should be easy to implement, surely?

nice but why do you exclude cadence?

SlaSh

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos he already mentioned it by saying steps higher spm shorter stride length.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@slashas an how would that be precise? For example, my cadence is 90/180 no matter what speed (up to 7:00m/km). However, my stride varies.
(playing the devils advocate here but I might be missing something)
Doesn’t then this make the stride a variable and not something constant?

If you have a milestone or a Stryd you will see this.

I can provide screenshots if needed

SlaSh

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos you are correct stride is variating depends on pavement and etc, but on treadmill it is almost constant.

Darren_M

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

@slashas an how would that be precise? For example, my cadence is 90/180 no matter what speed (up to 7:00m/km). However, my stride varies.
(playing the devils advocate here but I might be missing something)
Doesn’t then this make the stride a variable and not something constant?

If you have a milestone or a Stryd you will see this.

I can provide screenshots if needed

Strange because, running speed is the product of stride frequency (SF) and stride length (SL), and both are shown to increase when runners increase their speed. Anyway, putting the way the Garmin works it out to one side because the Garmin may be using a more complicated algorithm to produce stride length, it is average stride length, so maybe it’s sampling and looking for patterns rather than just raw maths. I obviously don’t have that information. I just know using stride length in the settings worked for me when on a treadmill. If you run on a treadmill at a certain speed you should be able to work out the error between watch and treadmill and add a number to a stride length setting to correct that error for next time. It will never be totally accurate, but it must be better than a 45% error.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@darren_m said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

@slashas an how would that be precise? For example, my cadence is 90/180 no matter what speed (up to 7:00m/km). However, my stride varies.
(playing the devils advocate here but I might be missing something)
Doesn’t then this make the stride a variable and not something constant?

If you have a milestone or a Stryd you will see this.

I can provide screenshots if needed

Strange because, running speed is the product of stride frequency (SF) and stride length (SL), and both are shown to increase when runners increase their speed. Anyway, putting the way the Garmin works it out to one side because the Garmin may be using a more complicated algorithm to produce stride length, it is average stride length, so maybe it’s sampling and looking for patterns rather than just raw maths. I obviously don’t have that information. I just know using stride length in the settings worked for me when on a treadmill. If you run on a treadmill at a certain speed you should be able to work out the error between watch and treadmill and add a number to a stride length setting to correct that error for next time. It will never be totally accurate, but it must be better than a 45% error.

If you take a look how stryd works or milestone you will see that your stryd length varies.
That said I am full on with your proposal and unfortunately suunto does not have that except an automatic calibration.

However back to our nice discussion if you do some research you will see that good running posture should have a stryd variance not cadence (stryd frequency).
For example the faster you go the bigger the stride should be. If you go slower and instead of deacresing the stride you decrease cadence then you are overstriding. And that is not good.

Anyways. I know there are plans in suunto for this but not in the very near future.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@slashas said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos you are correct stride is variating depends on pavement and etc, but on treadmill it is almost constant.

I am not 100% sure about this. Perhaps less variant but still my stats show differently.

SlaSh

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos you can check my treadmill activities most of them are 54spm cause I set constant speed on the tradmill so my spm is always constant in most cases

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@slashas said in Treadmill distance too high in SSWHR Baro:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos you can check my treadmill activities most of them are 54spm cause I set constant speed on the tradmill so my spm is always constant in most cases

true that but how about if that changes? I never use constant on TM.

In a case of constant speed or same style lets set it like so everything is ok. It’s the happy flow in other words.