No Vo2max since update 2.14.12

[Tobi74]

I tried different HR and GPS modes for running every day. But no Vo2max value will be shown in the app or on the watch? ‍️

Re: S9 Baro titanium not measuring VO2Max or fitness levels with 2.10.18 - is this a known problem?

[surfboomerang]

@tobi74 Are you running more then 15 minutes?
I see the values appear in SA (newest beta). Also after the watch firmware update.

[Tobi74]

@surfboomerang
I am running between 1h and 3h but no values. With Wrist hr on and GPS plus HR strap on. Or wrist hr off plus HR strap on and GPS. But still no values . I did soft and hard reset also!

[surfboomerang]

@tobi74 do the values appear in the watch activity logs? If so, try clearing the Suunto App cache on the phone.

[isazi]

@tobi74 every time you do a hard reset the previous history is lost, so previous activities are not taken into account.

[Tobi74]

@surfboomerang

no there is nothing in the activity log.

[surfboomerang]

@tobi74 And you use “Running” or “Hiking” as sport type? Is it a default sport mode or a custom one?
Maybe there is something wrong in the sport mode. Did you try to recreate it?

[Tobi74]

@surfboomerang it is the basic running mode. No user adjustments ‍️ I contacted Suunto support already bit no answer until today

[surfboomerang]

@tobi74 Can you post pictures from one of the running logs in the watch and also one of the Fitness Level page on the watch? (the screen all the way down)

[Tobi74]

@surfboomerang !  

[Tobi74]

@surfboomerang      

[TyreseJ4]

I really dislike the V02 Max feature. You go out and crush a run and it gives you +1; Go out and take it easy and it hits you with like -10. For example, on Monday I ran a 9 miler at about a 6:20 per mile pace and it bumped me up like 1 point. The very next day I took it easy and my V02 Max went down like 10 points. Lol the feature is a joke. Suunto should either remove the feature altogether or find a better way to give you a more reasonable score that takes into account hard days vs easy days. Theses devices treat V02 Max like it’s your credit score.

[DMytro]

@tyresej4 first of all: I agree that the values are unreliable. Even more so if it’s a walk or a hike, even a fast one.
On the other hand it seems somewhat logical to get a lower vo2 value from less stressful training. Since it’s the maximum oxygen consumption that’s beeing displayed, it seems reasonable that your maximum intake on less stressful activities is lower that on the hard ones. Of course I would expect the values to be extrapolated, but maybe the extrapolation is rather conservative not to overestimate the result.

[isazi]

@tyresej4 sorry but that’s not how it works. VO2max does not get lower when you take it easy (I can walk and it does not go down), it goes down if the ratio between your heart rate and output (e.g. pace) goes up, i.e. to a lower output corresponds a higher effort. So if you see those huge drops either you run slow in zone 5, something I believe you do not do, or there is some issues with your HR readings.

[DMytro]

@isazi I disagree. Since I do not run I see that walks bring my vo2max down significantly. Right now I have smth about 33 and I’m 21 and doing quite a lot of sport, so it’s not really believable. Furthermore If I walk slowly like 5 - 5.5 kmh, vo2max goes down even more. And to bring it back up I need to go at speeds 6.5 kmh and up.

[Rob33]

@дима-мельниченко Am rather in agreement with @isazi , on flat ground, an endurance outing where I am very good rhythm and low cardio, my Vo2max does not go down. It even goes up sometimes compared to a tempo or vma session where I make the heart go up well (and also the rhythm).
On the other hand or I find that it is completely wrong, it is the trail sessions with elevation gain.

[DMytro]

@rob33 alright, don’t now what’s my issue then.
Conserving trail runs - it’s to be expected, since algorithm doesn’t take elevation into account.

[isazi]

@дима-мельниченко I know it works with walking, but it is a metric developed for running and cycling. It’s also not a direct measurement but just a guess based on the proxy of effort against output. The faster you can run with the lowest HR, the higher Firstbeat VO2max will be. Contrary, the slower you go with the highest HR, the lower it will go.

[Tobi74]

What‘s really anointing is: I am contacting the suunto support since one month! Via chat function, email or by phone. They could not offer a solution even they are not replaying on any email! I bought this Watch in February, so 50% of the used time i could not use the full range of features the offer. For a product of that quality and price it is a very poor performance Suunto is offering.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@tobi74 what solution to offer for an algorithm that needs time to build and a proper effort?

[Tobi74]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos

Since the newest update the Vo2max value is not displayed or calculated…. So that problem needs to be solved. Or at least an information that they have no solution at the moment.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@tobi74 it’s not due to the new update. Right ? You had done a full reset of the watch correct ?

Although it’s covered here , vo2max is determined by firstbeat and that is a black box for suunto.

What helps is to have a good hr reading , run in zone 3 and higher , for more than 15 minutes , and I would say about ,30mins + for the whole run.

If you use ohr , it can be more tricky as if the ohr quality is not good enough, it won’t report vo2 max.

If you use a belt, clean it up to not have artifacts.

The only reason that vo2max is not appearing is due to the black box from firstbeat not being able to get a good quality run to determine that. And that applies only for the first time it needs to determine the base.

If the first run cannot determine a vo2max then the last 6 runs / walks start to contribute to a more generic detection.

[Tobi74]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos thanks for that explanation. I did hard and soft resets, changed the battery of the heart-rate belt…. And so on.
I will do a 10k test run tomorrow. Maybe the value will appear again. I agree with you about the black box and the firstbeat plugin. It will be always a problem with third party pugs if one party is doing an adjustment .

[isazi]

@tobi74 soft resets are no issue, but every time you do a hard reset it starts from scratch and it may take a while to estimate the value again. So hard resets aren’t a way to make VO2max reappear faster, they are a way to postpone it further.

[Soylent Yellow]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I’ve got the same problem here with my 9 Baro. Watch hard reset itself during the firmware upgrade, and since the hardly a Vo2max reading.

I ran a HM marathon yesterday, so that’s all Zone 3/4/5 on a flat course with open view of sky and a Polar H10 HR Monitor with a new strap and fresh battery, and still zilch. No Vo2max reading at all. I am really starting to believe that 2.14.12 changed something on the data delivery to FirstBeat’s ‘Black Box’, either because the GPS signal is noisier than before, or because the HR data gets massaged or re-interpreted somewhere.

Have a look at the images below. It is quite clear when the 2.14.12 upgrade took place!