Hiking with battery mode Ultra

Mff73

@fenr1r said in Hiking with battery mode Ultra:

@zadow It seems odd. I wonder why the presence of data fields that will continue to report null values requires (or was chosen to initiate) precision tracking. Is there something obvious?

maybe the glass is not half full, but half empty (or vice versa ), maybe it is by design that, if there is one field or screen that needs “best” precision, then, best precision is set.
Effectively, it could be the opposite : if user doesn’t set best , then all data needed would have been “blank” or “null”, and then users will ask why

surfboomerang

@mff73 Maybe it is just how we interpret things.
The manual describes the following note in the battery power management section:

If while exercising you start navigating or use navigation data like estimated time of arrival (ETA), the GPS goes to Best, regardless of the battery mode.

I read that note, but it never crossed my mind that ETA could interfere when you’re not navigating a route or if you turn the Navigation to “Off” in the activity settings.

Now, with the background knowledge it is obvious, but before it wasn’t.

Fenr1r

@mff73 Those were the only answers I came up with, too.

It seems peculiar that the existence of null-display capable ETE/ETA fields could possibly (and in the background) override two explicit user setting choices: GPS mode and (not using) navigation.

An override that the user would only discover afterwards. Or when the watch battery died early.

It’s mentioned as a Note in the User Guide, to be fair.

Effectively, it could be the opposite : if user doesn’t set best , then all data needed would have been “blank” or “null”, and then users will ask why

I don’t think the user would lose needed data (nav wasn’t selected), he/she would discover extra data (trackpoints) at the cost of battery power.

Fenr1r

@surfboomerang TBH, it seemed so strange to me that I thought it might have been a typo.

surfboomerang

Now that I think of it… what about this situation?

You create a route and send it to your watch.
You start a hiking activity with the ETA and/or ETE fields configured and start navigating the route.

After a while your battery reaches 10% and the watch asks you to switch profiles.
You switch to Endurance or Ultra, but that is never going to work because you have selected ETA/ETE as datafields.
So you can never preserve battery in this situation. Not even if you turn navigation off.

Fenr1r

@surfboomerang Does the App allow you to create a sport mode with ETA/ETE fields AND GPS mode set to anything but Best?

surfboomerang

@fenr1r You don’t define GPS mode in the app. It happens in the watch.
You can add ETE/ETA fields without a warning. When you select the sport mode and adjust GPS mode to OK in the watch, it also gives no warning.

Fenr1r

@surfboomerang said in Hiking with battery mode Ultra:

You can add ETE/ETA fields without a warning. When you select the sport mode and adjust GPS mode to OK in the watch, it also gives no warning.

And that neatly answers what would have been my follow-up. Thanks.

zadow

@surfboomerang Hm, now I am not 100% sure, but if I remember it correctly, watch switch to BEST GPS every time, when ETA/ETE/destination field is in ACTIVE (current) display. Therefore, as long as on your current active display are none of navigation related fields, GPS stays in ULTRA. As soon as you switch to display with any of those fields, watch switch to best in order to give you info what you are requesting - ETA/ETE or remaining distance… you can look at it, note it and then switch back to display without these fields. watches should switch back to ULTRA. This is how I understand how it works. So, pretty smart, IMHO.

Brad_Olwin

@zadow @surfboomerang I am awaiting confirmation from Suunto about this but…
AFAIK:

Navigation screen will invoke Best GPS only while on Nav screen.
Distance to waypoint/End on any screen will invoke Best GPS no matter battery settings or active screen if route is active.
ETE/ETA fields in any screen will invoke Best GPS no matter battery settings or active screen if route is active.
Altitude profile screen does not invoke Best GPS settings (not sure about this, will test but what I was told).

I will update this when I know more. I also plan to test this as I have 2 S9 baro watches.

Fenr1r

@brad_olwin 2 & 3 applying regardless of navigation ON/OFF status, AFAYK?

Brad_Olwin

@fenr1r Changed description, thanks but those fields will show ----------- if no route is loaded.

Fenr1r

@brad_olwin

Thanks, just working through the permutations!

those fields will show ----------- if no route is loaded.

Yup: that was the OP’s initial, deliberate condition. Hence the surprise at the GPS still being set to Best in the background without need or ability to display data there.

And @zadow’s interesting point about active screens: maybe it works that way without navigation enabled.

Something to add to your double-wielding test, if you feel like it.

surfboomerang

@brad_olwin Just curious…did you get a response from Suunto?

Brad_Olwin

@surfboomerang More of a discussion. For now, I think what I stated is correct but I should eventually have more information. If you want to use Endurance or Ultra mode at this time with a route loaded I recommend no ETE/ETA fields in custom sport modes or any distance to waypoint fields. Then, Best GPS should only be active when on route Navigation and Good GPS on other screens including the altitude profile screen. Keep bugging me about this and I will check into it. I will also be doing my own testing on long runs over the next two to three weeks.

surfboomerang

@brad_olwin said in Hiking with battery mode Ultra:

@surfboomerang More of a discussion.

Our opinion of how it should work differs from Suunto’s opinion?

surfboomerang

@brad_olwin Any news about the discussion outcome?

Brad_Olwin

@surfboomerang Nope, I will update when I know more. I think that WP distance fields and ETE/ETA fields may like stay as implemented. Users dislike “————“ being displayed as typically one thinks something is broken. The real question is whether Best GPS fix can be off unless the user is looking at these fields in the watch face. I would prefer it this way but still awaiting information on this. For now, when a route is loaded and no fields for distance/ETE/ETA the only screen that will revert to Best fix is the route screen itself.

surfboomerang

@brad_olwin Best GPS can also be off if the value is “----” even if i’m looking at these fields.
Btw, do you know how the Suunto Plus “Weather” screen influences this behaviour? This screen also takes ETA into account right?

Fenr1r

@brad_olwin said in Hiking with battery mode Ultra:

Users dislike “————“ being displayed as typically one thinks something is broken

What do these fields actually read when Nav is inactive (but GPS is switched on by their presence)? As currently implemented, if I understand S9s correctly. Sb’s original point was that no route was loaded.

As one has to activate Navigation manually, isn’t the value-less-ness more a clear indication/reminder that the user hasn’t done so? A step not taken, rather than something broken?

The real question is whether Best GPS fix can be off unless the user is looking at these fields in the watch face. I would prefer it this way but still awaiting information on this.

Also a very valid, if different usage case.