Future of the Spartan Line
-
@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Future of the Spartan Line:
@zhang965 no it doesn’t have any imporvements. No we didn’t add the vo2 that you asked, no we are not developing the software, no it didn’t don’t get suunto plus.
W t f dude ?
Oh wait. It’s monday. The time when people have to go and s***
Yes, of course, but we(you and me) didn’t mention the same time stamp.
Your time stamp is just a little bit earlier than my mention.
What I wanted to share with Michel, was Spartan has been released almost since 5 years.
It’s the time to move on.
If a gps watch’s support cycle is about 2 -3 years, S9B is getting over as well.
If you want a Rolex then buy a Rolex.
You cannot ask a 600dollers watch to become a real Rolex right?
-
@zhang965 said in Future of the Spartan Line:
You cannot ask a 600dollers watch to become a real Rolex right?
Definitely time for a Rolex watch face
-
-
@lexterm77
Suunto looks better
-
@Egika said in Future of the Spartan Line:
@lexterm77
Suunto looks betterYes, looks slicker, plus something is wrong with bt on my sub, it won’t sync
-
I appreciate all the replies - some valid points made. It’s a valid argument to consider whether a watch/line is too old, and time to move on. That’s why I dropped my Ambit 2 and got the Spartan. What frustrated me - and continues to frustrate me - is that they dropped a major swim feature - kick/drill. I (stupidly) didn’t confirm that something so fundamental would be dropped, and didn’t confirm it was there in the Spartan. For people who swim competitively, not being able to track kicking and drills is huge -it can be 1/3 to 1/2 of a given workout, depending. If you’re a runner, it’s like not being able to measure cadence, I guess. Triathletes don’t miss it, really, because when they train swimming, they mostly lap swim and often avoid kick stuff to “save their legs” (I know a lot of triathletes). What Suunto does, it does well, and has great hardware - I just don’t get dropping such a fundamental feature.
-
Earlier today I made a post that got closed because of this one duplicate so I guess I will have to answer here.
In my post I went into some detail of my take on this. It is long so the short summery is that I believe that the consumer, environment and Suunto as a company could benefit of long-time watch support and that if Suunto could not provide the update for free because of development costs, that they should sell it for a fair price.
Link to my post: https://forum.suunto.com/topic/6791/update-the-spartan-series-software
@saketo-nemo while it could be hardware related I doubt it. Resources and fitness-level are two additional screens in the menu. Snap to route is literally the reverse of the already present “remaining distance to end of route” plus a threshold when off route and the turn to turn is not really supported on the spartan, when activated it is only a bunch of annoying waypoints that do not tell anything.
@jsuarez I totally agree with you that the spartan seems EOL. Which I think is absurd because of the spartan still being a totally capable device. Obviously, the watch is not as “snappy” as the S9 when navigating menus, but totally justifiable for its age. For extra features I would even tolerate less “snappiness”. Some things on the old Suunto OS were neat, like the bar chart of activities.
Suunto Spartan Sport WHR power user
-
@peringmar I’m not so sure about it. Picture a subset of suunto users who don’t want to upgrade yet, then a subset of those who are willing to pay extra for the new update, never mind that Spartan is a line and not a single watch, so fw should be fine tuned for each and every watch. Tbh I think it’s a rather small number, so it’s probably still not economically viable.
As alternative I might suggest you buy a new watch if features are a deal-breaker for you and, either give your watch to suunto so that they can recycle it, or resell your watch, so other can use it, or just have two watches: Spartan for regular stuff and new watch for training where new features are crucial.
Extra features for additional price would be interesting to see though and I agree that is better to keep the old watch. -
@DMytro You may be right, thank you for all the suggestions, however as of now the features are not really a deal breaker for me but just something that would be nice to have.
-
@peringmar said in Future of the Spartan Line:
Earlier today I made a post that got closed because of this one duplicate so I guess I will have to answer here.
In my post I went into some detail of my take on this. It is long so the short summery is that I believe that the consumer, environment and Suunto as a company could benefit of long-time watch support and that if Suunto could not provide the update for free because of development costs, that they should sell it for a fair price.
Link to my post: https://forum.suunto.com/topic/6791/update-the-spartan-series-software
@saketo-nemo while it could be hardware related I doubt it. Resources and fitness-level are two additional screens in the menu. Snap to route is literally the reverse of the already present “remaining distance to end of route” plus a threshold when off route and the turn to turn is not really supported on the spartan, when activated it is only a bunch of annoying waypoints that do not tell anything.
@jsuarez I totally agree with you that the spartan seems EOL. Which I think is absurd because of the spartan still being a totally capable device. Obviously, the watch is not as “snappy” as the S9 when navigating menus, but totally justifiable for its age. For extra features I would even tolerate less “snappiness”. Some things on the old Suunto OS were neat, like the bar chart of activities.
I saw your post, and am curious what features were lost during movescount transition (never had a spartan).
If you lost functions, maybe you have some “right” to claim them. And maybe it is doable to implement them app wise and be compatible with spartans.Regarding new functions:
- selling an update , mostly not viable, and would be highly criticable . I rembember when apple asked you to pay upgrades for ipod touch…they were so much criticized.
Also, if the watch is already not snappy, it will be even worst, most likely if suunto implemented features that turn it slower, costumer would say it is programmed obsolescence.
Something Suunto “said” already they are against (hence the upgrades for all S series, and compatibility of spartans/ambit with Suunto App (maybe not the way users found perfect, but better than a paper weight). - Have you checked other brands watches from 2016, what upgrades with new features they got? I checked the 735XT and the Fenix 3…only bug fixes, and if you check their forums, you will found a lot of complains that this last updated rendered the watch with even more bugs
I am not protecting suunto or whatever, I pay for my watches, but things are not as easy as it may seem, and grass is not as green as it may seem on the other side.
- selling an update , mostly not viable, and would be highly criticable . I rembember when apple asked you to pay upgrades for ipod touch…they were so much criticized.
-
@andré-faria said in Future of the Spartan Line:
selling an update , mostly not viable, and would be highly criticable . I rembember when apple asked you to pay upgrades for ipod touch…they were so much criticized.
Also, if the watch is already not snappy, it will be even worst, most likely if suunto implemented features that turn it slower, costumer would say it is programmed obsolescence.Agree that paying for software is an unpopular opinion, when we are used to a lot of high-quality software being free. As a uni student I love free stuff, especially software, but paying a small sum would still be the cheaper option than buying a whole new watch. Also, apple takes a cut for pretty much any in app purchase consumers make/iphone accessory consumers buy and maybe that is why there really was not a need for them to sell the update when consumers already “pay” for it in other ways (I am not trying to defend apple). So maybe it is more justifiable if a smaller company like suunto does it when there is not really the same income that old devices generate compared to apple.
Regarding the snappiness of the watch, I may have made it sound worse that it really is, and I personally only noticed it when comparing both watch models side by side. The two extra menu screens (fitness-level and resources) are static so I doubt it will be a huge hit for the hardware.
Have you checked other brands watches from 2016, what upgrades with new features they got? I checked the 735XT and the Fenix 3…only bug fixes, and if you check their forums, you will found a lot of complains that this last updated rendered the watch with even more bugs
I have not owned a sport watch from any other brand than Suunto so I cannot comment on bugs or features of other watches. Could it be that there was no need for new feature updates because of features that suunto has implemented later were already present at launch?
-
@peringmar
just to know, what feature are missing from Movescount with Spartan ? -
@mff73
@andré-faria
It is now quit some time ago but from what I can remember there where two bar charts displaying the three most activities in time and distance in a nice way. In the logbook, the avg pace/HR was displayed with a horizontal line over the charts. Then there was also a page for planned trainings. This last one I am not really shore about, but I believe that when I wore my HR belt and went into the HR on demand it took my HR from it.Movescount specific would only be the planned trainings.
-
@andré-faria said in Future of the Spartan Line:
I saw your post, and am curious what features were lost during movescount transition (never had a spartan).
If you lost functions, maybe you have some “right” to claim them. And maybe it is doable to implement them app wise and be compatible with spartans.Hi André:
The feature loss for the Ambits is worse than for the Spartan series. I would be pissed, for example, if I had an ambit and now I would not be able to program non-straightforward interval training exercises. I still really can’t understand why Spartans didn’t get this so simple feature…
As for the Spartans, I would say they only lost their ability to program exercises in the calendar (via Movescount), so “hardware-wise” the picture is not that bad.
However, the critical part for me is the decommission of Movescount web itself. When I bought the watch in December 2017 Movescount and its features were a selling point. Clearly for me they were. And that service was clearly announced on the watch box.
So what were the features I really liked?
-
It had a web frontend! Yes, one of those things that we dinosaurs of the past can use with our PC with its mouse and other peripherals… Why analyse a move on a glossy 5" screen with your fat fingers…? That’s really unbearable and the Amber Sports-owned Sports Tracker is really subpar and doesn’t cut it.
-
The move analysis options were incredibly good if you take into consideration that they were bundled with the watch purchase. You could filter certain parts of the move, chose what parameters were being showed in the graphs, etc. Really good. Maybe right now Dimitrios’ QS is on par with that; can’t tell because I don’t use it.
-
Also the features for performance/progression tracking were superb. You could filter your best 100m, 400m, 1k, 2k, 3k, 5k, 10k, 1/2M, M chunks in any move and show them on a progression chart where you could also show the parameters you wanted and filter by them. You could even set the specific date interval to show (by manually changing the parameters in the web address shown on the browser). So for example, I could tell what my average power, average HR, etc. were in those moves and figure out trends. So, if for an almost similar pace and distance my average HR was lower (and the tracks were almost identical or the same), I could tell that my aero was getting better. Same for example for smaller chunks in relation to power (e.g. hill training). E.g. show me 3K chunks of all my runs between 1-Jan-21 till 15-Feb-21 where the average HR is between 144 and 156BPM and plot them on a graph so I can further inspect. That’s super powerful and valuable. I really can’t understand why Suunto threw this down the drain.
These features are lost and the worst here is that the code that allowed this rests in Suunto’s IP portfolio. They could have reimplemented it or given a proper solution.
While many will argue that there are 3rd parties that allow more or less the same, or even better, (i) I am not willing to pay a kidney for such analysis that was part of what I purchased back then (EULAs may be legal, but they not enforceable in good faith against users; you loose face as a company…), (ii) I am not willing to have a myriad of 3rd party service providers that store my personal and health data -with Movescount I had all I needed-, and (iii) the transition, feature parity/loss, FW update policy were plaged with wrong and poor communications by Suunto. You can ask Ambit users if they felt at ease during that time…
In this last regard, IIRC the last FW update for the Spartan series was a bugfix for the 1 Jan 2020 bug. But AFAIK the company has not stated whether further updates will come or if other features such as S+ will come. Polar, OTOH clearly shows the roadmap for each watch series/model and that’s what proper communication and expectations management is about.
So the picture above is not what a customer paying EUR 500 deserves or expects. And since I vote with my hard-earned money, I am not buying any new Suunto piece of equipment unless they reinstate (at least part of) what has been inexplicably lost.
It’s far beyond doubt that Suunto make great HW. Suunto 9 Peak is an example. But Suunto have showed that they don’t give a cent for some of their customers and their opinions on what is important (even a 30% discount is not enough in my opinion, given that it is only applicable in their web store and prices are sky high there, even higher than the competition with the disccount applied). I don’t want to be treated the same again.
P.S. In reply to Dimitrios’ last comment on the other thread, my main comment was on the de facto EOL situation of the Spartan line. In relation to Movescount and the transition there was communication, but IMO not clear and not correctly timed.
-
-
Please (all) do not revamp the Web interface discussion.
Everything has been said and you can check the existing discussions about it. -
@sartoric No problem!
I was just replying to the question about the features lost as a result of the transition. -
I would gladly buy a new Suunto, as long as the hardware had the features I’ve missed since the Ambit 2 owned - real swim tracking. Suunto - and these forums - continue to ignore all requests for updates on whether they will return manual lap add for swimming (kick/drill function). All indications from the development of the 7 watch (smartwatch features) is that they are just sticking with people who only swim freestyle. Tracking the other strokes is great, but the inability to manually add laps means that they fundamentally do not understand or care about real swim sets - kicking and drills (where you don’t move one of your arms for an entire lap or multiple laps) are fundamental to real swim training.
-
@sartoric @freenico
I wanted to add here, that @freenico has complained about several issues here with his spartan, and he waits for updates. be we don’t know at all the details of the issues. asking for updates is one thing. but I know people happily using their spartans without an urgent need for an update… why the difference? If @freenico could explain the issues, maybe he could get support here, if the topic isn’t discussed to the ground already
-
@freeheeler said in Future of the Spartan Line:
@sartoric @freenico
I wanted to add here, that @freenico has complained about several issues here with his spartan, and he waits for updates. be we don’t know at all the details of the issues. asking for updates is one thing. but I know people happily using their spartans without an urgent need for an update… why the difference? If @freenico could explain the issues, maybe he could get support here, if the topic isn’t discussed to the ground alreadyI will happily give my reasons for hoping for spartan software updates:
- the gps tracking, especially during swimming, is worse than the 1st model apple watch (i actually tested and compared them)
- altitude sensor is really poor
- perhaps they could add a few watch-face (maybe not important at athletic levell but it would still be nice to have the option)
- there is the option to customize existing sport modes but a new sport cannot be added (for example, i took part in a duathlon/swim-run race and i had to use the multisport option to somehow records the laps). It would have been useful if i could add a new sport
- reading form the official specs page the suunto spartan ultra does not have a temperature sensor however, when uploading the activity on suunto app it shows the temperature (both air and water temp.); it would be nice if the temp could be shown on the watch also (especially during trail running on high peaks)
- often the gps takes several minutes to grab the signal and occasionally i have to soft-reset the watch to get it started.
Perhaps, i could think of a few more; isn’t software updates adding&improving the whistles&bells of something good to make it great?
P.s.: for instance, i am having a drink sitting at a bar by the sea, in the Med sea (literally sea-level), and my spartan gives -49m altitude
-
@freenico
S9B is still frequently receiving updates and gives relatively bad tracks when swimming. Water is very difficult for GPS signals and the issue might be in the hardware, too. Hence, no improvement for Spartan and S9 either with updates.
What do you mean by alti sensor is poor?
Are the sensor holes free during your activity?
I don’t know about sport mode customization, it should be possible to add, but the amount is limited.
Regarding the time to get satellites locked, I assume you keep AGPS file updated? I have experienced that it sometimes takes 2 seconds at the start screen, sometimes over 1 minute. If you move while on the start screen it is more difficult for the watch to lock satellites.
