Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts

[Luís Pinto]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Firstbeat is a company that i respect so much. One company that have the philosophy from catching scientific studies and do algorithms for brands is amazing.

Adaptative training for example can give much more than actually. Is important this algorithm have connection with the story of athlete to generate plans. Have to gather in case of running, how much time person do exercice, type of activity, number of exercises for week, distances, paces, power, HR, type of exercise just to mention in principals. But for that algorithm work well have to gather data from a cloud for that person, and have these variables.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@slashas said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos well I would give an option turn it on or off. I suspect s3f is having tweaked fw to flash led’s more faster and etc as havent found anything new from valancel.

No and yes. Valencel has created ibi data sensros.

Also worth to mention is that the s3f is very very light device. Our big Spartans are heavy and that was the challenge to get good whr. Hope it makes sense. Ibi data need very good precision to work ok.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@luís-pinto said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Firstbeat is a company that i respect so much. One company that have the philosophy from catching scientific studies and do algorithms for brands is amazing.

Adaptative training for example can give much more than actually. Is important this algorithm have connection with the story of athlete to generate plans. Have to gather in case of running, how much time person do exercice, type of activity, number of exercises for week, distances, paces, power, HR, type of exercise just to mention in principals. But for that algorithm work well have to gather data from a cloud for that person, and have these variables.

Perhaps to spoil it to you, from your fitness level s3f is not for you. It’s for people who are just starting and just need a active lifestyle. (Meaning that you are above that level don’t take it bad )

The firstbeat training plans are plenty and for s3f the fitness plan is used.

[Luís Pinto]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I know that S3F is oriented for another target. And have advantages! J

Just saying that Firstbeat can explore more adaptative training, but with brands collaboration, because personal history is stored in clouds.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@luís-pinto said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I know that S3F is oriented for another target. And have advantages! J

Just saying that Firstbeat can explore more adaptative training, but with brands collaboration, because personal history is stored in clouds.

Ah yes. Sorry missed the point man.

[SlaSh]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos if s3f would employ BW2.0 there would be 2 leds, s3f is having 3 so seems BW1.2 which is the same as on spartan baro.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@slashas said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos if s3f would employ BW2.0 there would be 2 leds, s3f is having 3 so seems BW1.2 which is the same as on spartan baro.

And the answer :.

There’s an optical HR sensor and it’s the exact same Valencell model as on the SPARTAN TRAINER WHR (the latest Valencell BW2.0).

From

https://the5krunner.com/2018/04/04/suunto-fitness-3-first-look-first-runs-hands-on-not-a-review/

[SlaSh]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos as per valancell technical datasheet BW2.0 HW design to use 2 leds.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@slashas said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos as per valancell technical datasheet BW2.0 HW design to use 2 leds.

Uses 2 LEDs for retrieving data. The 3rd pauses on ibi. It’s a chip from valencel. This is the official answer. If you want I have a video for you for how it blinks.

[SlaSh]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I have datasheet from the valancell and bw2 only have 2 leds and optical detector… Even shape of the sensor looks differently. When I look at trainer/s3f sensor it looks exactly as BW1.2 in shape and etc.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@slashas said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I have datasheet from the valancell and bw2 only have 2 leds and optical detector… Even shape of the sensor looks differently. When I look at trainer/s3f sensor it looks exactly as BW1.2 in shape and etc.

I took a look at the sheet and did not see any specific limitation to 2LEDS as the module is movable and apart from the led system

Benchmark BW2.0 has an optimized design that provides the option to separate the MCU from the optical sensor, which gives customers the flexibility to move the MCU to another location and enable overall reduced device size or space for additional components in the device.

However I asked Suunto for a official reply (which was already in the article I posted)

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

Also from the technical sheet bw2.0

[SlaSh]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos you can check yourself official data sheets, my main university graduation is electronics and I see quite big differences between these two sensors and how they work and looking at s3f sensor shape, how leds are placed and how many of them I can almost guarantee that it is BW1.2.:

https://valencell.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/000831-2.00-Benchmark-Wrist-1.2-Datasheet.pdf
On the left of the diagram, the sensor module circuit board contains a digital optical detector system,
three LEDs
https://valencell.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/000912-1.01-Benchmark-Wrist-2.0-Datasheet.pdf
On the left of the diagram, the sensor module circuit board contains a digital optical detector system, two
LEDs, and an accelerometer.

You cannot move so easily leds as it will impact measurement and etc, shape is one of the factors which cannot be amended so easily as this will impact production line and etc.

[SlaSh]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos this drawing that you have provided shows 2 leds + optical sensor

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@slashas said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos you can check yourself official data sheets, my main university graduation is electronics and I see quite big differences between these two sensors and how they work and looking at s3f sensor shape, how leds are placed and how many of them I can almost guarantee that it is BW1.2.:

https://valencell.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/000831-2.00-Benchmark-Wrist-1.2-Datasheet.pdf
On the left of the diagram, the sensor module circuit board contains a digital optical detector system,
three LEDs
https://valencell.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/000912-1.01-Benchmark-Wrist-2.0-Datasheet.pdf
On the left of the diagram, the sensor module circuit board contains a digital optical detector system, two
LEDs, and an accelerometer.

You cannot move so easily leds as it will impact measurement and etc, shape is one of the factors which cannot be amended so easily as this will impact production line and etc.

I also finished electronics however it’s not my expertise.

Taking a look at the specs:

BW2.0

BW1.2

I dont see anything specific to the led sensors count.

Correct me or help me to understand (before suunto replies)

[SlaSh]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos anyway no matter BW1.2 can provide vo2, RR and HRV as well, just the matter if suunto is willing to give this functionality for customers Once s3f released I can do reverse engineering of s3f FW to make sure what kind of sensor it is

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@slashas said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos anyway no matter BW1.2 can provide vo2, RR and HRV as well, just the matter if suunto is willing to give this functionality for customers Once s3f released I can do reverse engineering of s3f FW to make sure what kind of sensor it is

haha true but only resting RR eh!

Btw take a look at this:

What do you make out (I am not expert here) and I more will trust you @slashas rather than 5K runner etc.

[SlaSh]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos looks like BW1.2 by shape, led placement 2 green, 1 yellow, optical sensor. Looks exactly the same as on my baro this is just speculations, to confirm that I need FW

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@slashas said in Suunto 3 Fitness Thoughts:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos looks like BW1.2 by shape, led placement 2 green, 1 yellow, optical sensor. Looks exactly the same as on my baro this is just speculations, to confirm that I need FW

I am with you on this one.

But as you I am also trying to understand.

Take a look here:

Left is the trainer and then it’s SSSWHR and Baro. The SSWHR and Baro have a different component.

[NicolasP]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos in lot of reviews I’ve read that the Trainer uses the same OWHR component than Sport but presented differently as rotated by 180° and integrated differently as well as the modul is not hidden in the case of the watch.