Incompetent graphs

ColdBeer

@Tobias-F Totally agree, but taking about an app which needs a totally redesign of plotting function, totally redesign of notifications function (as it still can’t filter notifications in Android), a totally redesign of web interface (as it’s valid for nothing), and probably -IMHO- a totally redesign of the core -to let an easier development and don’t have two separated branches for Android and iPhone-… My question is: is intelligent to bet for it, annoying users and spending more and more resources?

So, following the subject of this post… Is for real the incompetence in the graphs? Is it in the user when he claims because he feels something wrong? Until when the same answers (it’s a known bug, vote for it, that’s not an official answer, maybe in a future…)?

So, Suunto leaders, please: close this forum for a while, spend $$$$$$ to completely rewrite the app (you could still call it "Suunto App if you want), make some SERIOUS tests, and just when it have -at least- the same functions and functionality as MC (web), publish it for open beta testing. And never, never, shut the testers, specially if they don’t feel they are working on a beta.

@Brad_Olwin @sartoric said in Incompetent graphs:

you shouldn’t sync through sport tracker to update SA data

guys, with all due respect, I don’t think the end user like here @silentvoyager is the problem aka “you shouldn’t sync from … to …” - for such comic shown here an labelled as graph - rather the software engineer who for whatever for reason decided the sportstracker database is a better source of raw data and then produced such non-usable crap like shown above,

why SA don’t sync from movescount in the first place is a miracle for me and probably only the marketing genius at Suunto can comment about it as I’m not capable to say anything intelligent about such decision …

Suunto SW engineers: if you are reading, good place to start for making a real ‘graph’ (that is worth the name) would be to name the x/y axes accordingly what data you are actually plotting there … kids learn this in elementary school…

Suunto: if you want me seriously considering using the Suunto app for your Sport Instruments then show me facts and reliable data casualization from my activity records and not make-up fiction and joke like this…

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

Hi let me announce this, sorry I am at HQ now and have been traveling.
Next stuff to come to you asap among many others

Better graphs
Laps as they should be
MC history in May to June

The above is the main focus from now-on!

I hope this helps.

Regarding the graphs, issue here is non-linear time

To enforce this: Your data are correct in SA and the representation is skewed.

ColdBeer

@Tobias-F Again, totally agree, IMHO, this is a kind of joke in a circus. They’re betting to convert this app as the main (and probably the only one) in 14-16 months while it still can’t handle cadence or power, and still can’t plot a simple graph as it should. They are having agreements with external services (Strava, Runalyze…) but… what about if graphs/data exported there is faulty?.. If their own app still can’t manage or plot it rightly… I can’t understand just nothing here.

Answering @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos who wrote at the same time with me: are you kidding? First:

show me GOOD graphs (not better)
good managing of data (cadence, laps -manual and auto-, power…)
let me manage notifications in my watch
let me EXPORT raw (fit) workouts and my whole workout history here

…and then -ONLY THEN- let me choose to import MC history to this joking app.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@ColdBeer I can facilitate a refund of your watch if you please, as I reach a point that your repetitive non value added critisism does not help here and I think that should perhas help you rest your mind.
I have seen what you suggest/critisised here many times and actually (I can link threads) you are not saying anything new for about 5 months here in almost every post that you comment. ITs kinda the same, mocking the developer and management and claiming that you , if you were in charge would do it better.

We liked your feedback but its enough up to here.

Droro

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos you can refund watches? Hey guys, let’s maybe take him for his word. You are doing a good job of driving more customers away.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@Droro I dont drive customers away, I help people. Please do read my post again. If you are not happy with the product that is the help I can offer. If you do like in other threads just mock Suunto, or every day continue with a non constructive commenting saying the same and same every day to my eyes you are not a happy consumer.

What do you want me todo ? Go code for suunto to get what you want? I facilitate here all the means for you to be heard and to prioritize what you have voted. What you have requested is what is under works and that is clearly stated with the feature suggestions and what I just posted (opened up some plans) for you

ColdBeer

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Incompetent graphs:

@ColdBeer I can facilitate a refund of your watch if you please, as I reach a point that your repetitive non value added critisism does not help here and I think that should perhas help you rest your mind.
I have seen what you suggest/critisised here many times and actually (I can link threads) you are not saying anything new for about 5 months here in almost every post that you comment. ITs kinda the same, mocking the developer and management and claiming that you , if you were in charge would do it better.

I agree, I’ll chat with you in private. You have the reason: this is not my right place, and I don’t align with this developing/implantation method.

We liked your feedback but its enough up to here.

Just a step ahead: from “you are wrong” to “your comments are not welcome yet”.

Droro

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos no, I don’t want you to code for suunto, and I already said, and others, that you do a very good job as community manager.
But look at runalyze for example, AFAIK, a bunch of running enthusiasts that work based on donations or free, and produce an excellent website, for free.
The difference is these are running enthusiasts, while if suunto management were such, they would be motivated to produce a much better app and work flow for development. No way it could be otherwise.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@ColdBeer tell me buddy what does the above add to my day for example ? Or to anyother user?
We read it. you rock. Yes you have great ideas, and all is know and transfered as it should be . Saying the same thing the next day, please explain to me how does it help or who does it help ?

Please answer this

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@Droro All Suunto personel are super sportive Ultra runners etc etc etc.

you want to see some from the management as well?

Here you go https://vimeo.com/317009228?fbclid=IwAR3PpYOtjqMCyF4umklwCZNK32rZAgZ-9kO0QIYeVcLzsN76IASxCaNoVbM

I also developed a free website for track comparison on my free time quantified-self.io and I bet also other people in the world. For every free webservice that is out that does not mean that a Suunto person is doing something bad.

Droro

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I wasn’t talking about you. So you are saying suunto management all use SA, and are happy with what they are using? How do you explain the discrepancy between them and practically everyone on this forum?
We all paid to use SA by buying a suunto watch. It’s not free in that sense.

@ColdBeer said in Incompetent graphs:

Is it in the user when he claims because he feels something wrong?

agree and think it’s not at all the end user to be blame if he noticed such serious error like this…

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@Droro its called transition period from Service A to Service B.
And yes that is the worse time for all of us including Suunto.

Movescount as we all know works well today and might be for quite a few time, and here we facilitate the place for the next service to be taken forwards by the community .

Droro

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos why does suunto tell all spartan/9 users in no ambiguous terms that SA is for them and not movescount? You can check yourself, that is on the apps. (mc/SA).
It is the worst time for suunto because they encourage users to help them with the transition by becoming unwilling beta testers, which harm their training and reduces data availability. That’s a nono, never make customers beta testers. (unless they volunteer)

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@Droro there is not beta testing atm. Suunto app is the official app from Suunto. If the data visualization has problems that is understandable and clearly acknowledged from Suunto as I told you it’s the next iteration to come.

Droro

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos if it was just data visualization then OK. But, hr data wasted, no interval training on the app, and a bunch of other things mentioned here which make me believe it is in a beta stage in an unofficial manner. That is at least how I feel. having said that, it does at least work for the most part, if you look at Google play comments, many people give it 5 stars because it works (sync with watch mainly). Is that a reason for five stars? Not imo.

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Incompetent graphs:

Hi let me announce this

great, we have a mini-roadmap now they might take a look at quantified-self.io for the graphs
as these translucent surfaces along the rider on top with the actual metrics, as this is looking awesome!

small question remains: who had this great idea with ‘non-linear’ time for plotting graphs and rendering the result graphical useless? Majority (not saying all) of sport activity are determined by time so it’s a quite crucial fact to visualize this properly and for you to be able to learn something form these graphs, isn’t it?

ColdBeer

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos To be sincere, your “work day” (sorry, and please put a difference with your “private day”) has got a relative importance for me. I appreciate -sincerely- your efforts trying to involve “the dome” in a better app, and your work on QS (which is, AFAIK, a private and personal development).

But as I said one year ago, this is a kind of a circus (and sorry for the comparison, I don’t try to disrespect no one), where the ringmaster (you) tries to do his best with a big effort, while managers doesn’t spend a penny on the circus, and workers are totally lost and depressed. That’s my imagination, but with some answers here in this forum, it seems that some of you are trying to shut up those users who tell “hey! the elephant is just two man with a bad costume” or “wow! the amazon -horsewoman- is an 80 years old woman with no abilities to ride a horse!!!”. If, month after month the “show” is still the same… and some clients repeats the same critic… THE FAULT IS IN THE CLIENTS? REALLY?

Users/Clients made his job: collaborate, inform, critic, buying watches, and put their best testing the app (sometimes even losing data).

Suunto is the one who DIDN’T MAKE HIS JOB. That’s my POV, and it’s simply.

ColdBeer

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Incompetent graphs:

@Droro its called transition period from Service A to Service B.
And yes that is the worse time for all of us including Suunto.

Movescount as we all know works well today and might be for quite a few time, and here we facilitate the place for the next service to be taken forwards by the community .

In my past life as network administrator and software engineer, transitions start JUST WHEN every capabilities and features and so on works RIGHT. Never a transition from a stable app to a “BETA app”.