sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family
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@Tobias-F said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
I couldn’t disagree more to such statement, particular an company advertising products “build to last”
Then honestly answer me this question: what would happen if Suunto commits to throwing limited and frankly already stretched resources at supporting products and services that are 10 years old and are used by a shrinking minority of users? While failing to allocate adequate manpower to new competitive products in an industry that’s dominated by short iteration cycles and constant technological innovation?
That’s right! Suunto will go out of business.
What do you think is going to happen to Movescount then?
You published a picture of a significant watch collection from Suunto. What would you prefer? To lose some of it or all of it?
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@NickK said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
products and services that are 10 years old
let’s stick to the facts a bit, Suunto Ambit2 is not 10 years old, launched in 2013 along the Ambit 2S, the Ambit 2R came 2014, the Suunto Ambit3 in 2015 and derivates followed, last major movescount.com update was probably 1- 1.5years ago? (not 100% sure about that) since running with very little updates/improvements, so if you are selling today an Ambit3 watch in Suunto’s webshop and tell the customer tomorrow it’s a big vague if we are fully supporting your watch next summer in my opinion that’s unacceptable, if you think an R&D release cycle as above and keeping units less as 5 years old in maintenance mode/in market support with limited stuffed R&D headcount (rather then full blown R&D from concepting to NPI towards ramp-up and mass production for a new device) stretches a company like Suunto to the limits for their existence then there might be something wrong in the resource allocation there, not sure about that …
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@Tobias-F Source?
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@Tobias-F said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
@NickK said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
products and services that are 10 years old
let’s stick to the facts a bit, and tell the customer tomorrow it’s a big vague if we are fully supporting your watch next summer in my opinion that’s unacceptable, t …
Yes, let’s stick to the facts, how about a year from next summer. There will be a lot of changes by then, perhaps your watch will be supported.
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@Brad_Olwin said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
perhaps your watch will be supported.
thanks for valuable comment Brad
emphasizes on “perhaps” , if you bought an Ambit3 yesterday and today Suunto tell you it “perhaps” will be supported beyond next summer it’s not only my opinion (beyond the many similar concerns form user here past days) that this is unacceptable furthermore in US and Europe an regulatory requirement by federal agencies and render illegal and against the law for consumer protection statutes and breach of the implied warranty, nothing legally left to debate or to discuss - full stop
good luck in tinkering with the law and starts discussion with federal agencies in multiple jurisdictions, think they will start laughing at you if you come with opening statement “perhaps we might fulfill our regulatory obligations …”
Suunto just lost an class action law suit for their dive computers in US about accuracy of dive pressure sensor (http://www.suuntodivecomputersettlement.com/), they didn’t go to an US court and fight in through, no - they settled and denied wrongdoing… so at least they understand what regulatory requirements mean, and by the way their layer didn’t start with “perhaps”
last comment: I would expect from a forum moderator a bit more customer emphasizes and being a voice for the effected and concerned user rather then defending the mess and opposing against a worried and voiced out customer here but probably this forum is not the right place for it…
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I, too, am interested how you obtained the website usage stats. As @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos, pointed out, the graph does not include stats for the App users, so we can’t infer user preferences.
Suunto has, no doubt, crunched the usage numbers, and (from what we can tell from the announcement) determined that it makes sense from a finance/resource standpoint to migrate to a smartphone-only platform. The company may very well be on the fence about scrapping the site entirely, which would explain the ambiguous wording in the service transition announcement. What I, and many of us hope, is that Suunto considers customer satisfaction to be an equally-worthwhile investment, even if website-only users are in the minority.
Other users have made an important point that Suunto also relies on selling new hardware to turn a profit. Hopefully, corporate has paid attention to the drawbacks of Apple’s planned obsolescence business model with decline in new iPhone purchases over time as smartphones became commodities and consumers were no longer willing to pay more for minimal upgrades. With this in mind, if Suunto was willing to invest fully in user-friendly software and their website, I would be fine with paying for non-standard features (e.g., the ability to store additional data in-app/onsite beyond some baseline amount/time, customized workout intervals, extra performance statistics).
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@Tobias-F said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
@Brad_Olwin said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
perhaps your watch will be supported.
thanks for valuable comment Brad
emphasizes on “perhaps” , if you bought an Ambit3 yesterday and today Suunto tell you it “perhaps” will be supported beyond next summer it’s not only my opinion (beyond the many similar concerns form user here past days) that this is unacceptable furthermore in US and Europe an regulatory requirement by federal agencies and render illegal and against the law for consumer protection statutes and breach of the implied warranty, nothing legally left to debate or to discuss - full stop
good luck in tinkering with the law and starts discussion with federal agencies in multiple jurisdictions, think they will start laughing at you if you come with opening statement “perhaps we might fulfill our regulatory obligations …”
Suunto just lost an class action law suit for their dive computers in US about accuracy of dive pressure sensor (http://www.suuntodivecomputersettlement.com/), they didn’t go to an US court and fight in through, no - they settled and denied wrongdoing… so at least they understand what regulatory requirements mean, and by the way their layer didn’t start with “perhaps”
last comment: I would expect from a forum moderator a bit more customer emphasizes and being a voice for the effected and concerned user rather then defending the mess and opposing against a worried and voiced out customer here but probably this forum is not the right place for it…
Even Though I am a moderator, I am no different than you. I do not work for Suunto and have no influence on what Suunto decides to do. I am not defending Suunto’s actions although I did go through this once before with the transition from Training Manager to MC. I have had a number of service requests with Suunto and have always been treated well by them. My old iPhone doesn’t work nearly as well as it should and was not going going to be compatible with iOS12 so I bought a new one. By the time the transition occurs all but the Ambit 3 will be much older than my iPhone…I did not threaten Apple with lawsuits nor did I post my displeasure or rant on social media. I just have a different outlook than you do.
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@Brad_Olwin
From my previous post
‘Suunto Official Store’ they’re selling the 3Peak HR for £389.00 and promoting ‘Route planning in Suunto Movescount.com’ knowing in a couple of years it’ll be defunct. Correct that to less than ‘a couple of years’
Not happy. Enough said. -
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@NickK said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
Once upon a time Apple’s computers run on PowerPC, not Intel processors. I still remember conversations with a few unhappy owners who had perfectly working laptops that were no longer supported once the switch was over.
The comparison to Apple changing processors doesn’t actually make sense. By changing processors it meant that current users couldn’t upgrade. What it didn’t do is remove any existing functionality from a product that they were still selling.
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@Brad_Olwin said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
My old iPhone doesn’t work nearly as well as it should and was not going going to be compatible with iOS12 so I bought a new one. By the time the transition occurs all but the Ambit 3 will be much older than my iPhone…I did not threaten Apple with lawsuits nor did I post my displeasure or rant on social media. I just have a different outlook than you do.
I bet Apple weren’t selling phones that wouldn’t work with their new OS on their site though.
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@Navigator said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
@Brad_Olwin
From my previous post
‘Suunto Official Store’ they’re selling the 3Peak HR for £389.00 and promoting ‘Route planning in Suunto Movescount.com’ knowing in a couple of years it’ll be defunct. Correct that to less than ‘a couple of years’
Not happy. Enough said.The BLE connected watches will be supported. I think how much support is unclear at this time. This point has be discussed quite a bit.
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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@Brad_Olwin said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
The BLE connected watches will be supported. I think how much support is unclear at this time. This point has be discussed quite a bit.
The issue doesn’t appear to be the support of BLE devices. The issue for a lot of people seems to me to be more related to the removal of functionality of devices that are still being sold based on the exact functionality.
To an extent I understand that older devices might be phased out, as unfortunate as it is for those that are impacted by this. The real kicker is the currently models in certain ranges potentially being made less capable.
At the very minimum it would have made sense to have a plan in place to maintain the current functionality of all the products Suunto are selling after the move onto the new platform.
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@Brad_Olwin
It’s kind of sad seeing how Suunto is destroying perfectly functional platform while selling new products with half baked crippled mobile app. So new customers are supposed to buy product and wait (judging by speed of Suunto’s development team) few years to have a product that is actually usable? Why would anyone do that? There are cheaper products that have functional app right now.It seems to me that Suunto is being relegated from 1st league and their competition is now going to be cheap Chinese manufacturers instead of Garmin, Polar etc.
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@be1t0n
Using the Apple comparison if Apple pulled iTunes I wonder how customers would feel if they couldn’t upload their extensive music collections, configure ‘backups’ or set other ‘options’? -
@Navigator said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
@Brad_Olwin
From my previous post
‘Suunto Official Store’ they’re selling the 3Peak HR for £389.00 and promoting ‘Route planning in Suunto Movescount.com’ knowing in a couple of years it’ll be defunct. Correct that to less than ‘a couple of years’
Not happy. Enough said.I just bought the 3 Peak HR from the Suunto webshop (at far less than £389- it would appear that there is some will to offload soon-to be compromised hardware). My product choice was strongly influenced by the “route planning in movescount.com” feature. I live in a remote area with pitiful phone coverage and a smartphone is of no use whatsoever to me. The assumption that everyone uses/has access to smartphone services is about as ridiculous as assuming that all millenial males have beards. As far as I’m concerned the product is guaranteed for 2 years and that includes the advertised ability to use Movescount.com web feature, which is promoted as part of the product package. There was no mention on the webshop or at any point during the transaction process that a large part of the product’s functionality is about to be lobotomised. That’s pretty shady trading on Suunto’s part. The watch hasn’t arrived yet but I’m most likely going to send it straight back and buy a different from another manufacturer. Shame, as the advertised feature set would have suited my needs perfectly, but it appears that the product is not as advertised, or at least it won’t be in 18 months time (within the guarantee period). I could of course keep it, use it for the coming year, then send it back and claim a full refund when the plug is pulled on Movescount, as it would mean that one of it’s advertised product features was no longer working.
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@NickK The Zune has basically an “open file system”, at least the content and other parts that matter, and you can still upload most music to it, particularly any CD titles and such. So, unlike my Ambit2 (and Ambit 3 that will no longer work as a DH ski watch, either, after this goes down), it “lives on”.
The fact that Suunto failed to design in a “layered architecture” for their system, is more likely what happened here (say compared to Garmin). If they had, support for older devices, wouldn’t be much of an issue, particularly given the low volume.
I’m losing my Suunto2 AND 3, effectively, given that I can’t use either to track skiing anymore. While I could use my 3 for cycling (my other main sports-tracking use), I’m most likely just going to sell both (if I still can), and pick up a couple of used Fenix 3s, or similar.
I’ve been with Suunto since the late 1990’s (Vector, S6, and others), and despite being a s/w (and sometimes h/w) engineer myself, I was always a little dubious of the “closed loop” system Suunto did with the MovesCount system, given that there’s no easy way to import/export files, like say Garmin.
Now, I’m wishing I’d been MUCH more wary, and bailed after my S6.Personally, given that they’re still selling the Ambit3, and it’s promoted as supporting apps (ssh, don’t tell anyone it’s only for a little over a year), I think Suunto is going to lose a lot of “customer loyalty” and to a lesser degree, credibility, here.
If you want some more introspection, there’s a big discussion over on DCR’s site, where he wrote up a pieces about the demise (it’s also got hundreds of comments, along the lines of these). -
The fact that Suunto failed to design in a “layered architecture” for their system, is more likely what happened here (say compared to Garmin). If they had, support for older devices, wouldn’t be much of an issue, particularly given the low volume.
How do you know that?
Also you mention that you are sure that A3 will not be support (or A2). You have not gotten any news from Suunto so far about this have you.
Its easy to jump to conclusions, for everyone, as everyone has an opinion and respected, but to say things like you know them, aint good pal
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I can trace/debug their PC app, if that’d help (and provide a call-stack, for a typical activity transfer, obviously w/o symbollic-code-data)?
I’ve designed both types (layered and monolithic), although most monolithic stuff is on the way out, or has been for a long time (going on 30 years in the PC world now), this is a typical issue that almost always arises, with a monolithic design.
I guess I’m not 100% confident, but I’d say I’m 95%, from a professional perspective, and willing to do the legwork, and provide the stack-traces, if there’s interest.The page here, explicitly states that they won’t be supported (apps), on the Ambit3.
I did chat w/support, and they verified that there are no plans to add a “DH ski mode” to the Ambit3, so what other possible path would there be, or conclusion to be drawn?
Do you think that the support chat, AND the page that calls it out are insufficient, to base the lack of support for the Ambit3, going forward?Since Suunto isn’t going to integrate this into the Ambit3 (even though they are STILL selling it, as a ski-specific watch, check their sales page it’s up there today, 3/27/19), and are going to disable all the apps and custom fields, on the Ambit3, this is where I see things. Am I missing something?
I did look back, and I paid almost 400, for the Ambit3 Peak, almost 2 years ago exactly, when I purchased it for DH ski tracking, explicitly. I guess this means I get 2, or maybe 3 years of use for it, depending on how “flexible” the data-port side of things is (as in, will you be able to port at the very last minute in 2020, or are you forced to do it sooner).
Thanks for any clarification.
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@pgrey I would really wait for Suuntos news. I am sure because I have been quite involved with transferring the feedback and because a3 is still sold, that those devices won’t be bricked. Please wait for them to show their next plans. Should not come later than this summer.
