Ambit2 - spell it out for me...
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@KnutB
you risk a long essay about pros and cons
but I try to make it short and highlight whatās important to me.
In general, they are two different watches and while A3PS is a stable, reliable and tough watch, there are some things that need some love from Suunto team in the S9B. The S9B works reliable for me, donāt get me wrong:hereās what I seeā¦
phone/pc software:
A3PS in combination with MC is convenient to use at the desktop, MC app is basically only good for spontaneous setup and else only to sync without a cable.
On the other hand S9B, I would be quite disappointed to use it only in combo with my phone. I appreciate all functionality of SA without the desktop. I will mainly use it with the phone but want to have the opportunity to look at activities on a big screen. But there are still some (not a lot) things missing for me in SA like ascent summaries, crop and merge of activities and analyzing the parameters by selecting zones on x axis e. g. to analyze one specific ascent. (I hope this will come!)gps accuracy:
it is not veeery important to me even I appreciate better accuracy when itās there. A3PS is a bit better (where I have tested it). I did not test indeepth galileo or glonass effects. The fact that S9B is galileo and glonass ready is a big plus and I request to use the 3 systems individually without gps!
In the S9 pros and cons thread I posted the result of a direct comparison of the watches recordings and noticed that S9B has a more nervouse recording. Might be better for faster activities. On slower activities it could be a disadvantage.display:
I was a bit afraid of a color display, but it is very good to read on the S9B in a lot of angles, while the A3PS is slightley worse to read but good over a wider range of angles. In lowlight itās still good to see.baro/ascent calculation:
with my main activities the ascent calculation is pretty precise. during my comparison test on rollinglish terrain I noticed that S9B calculates less ascent meters than A3PS. Question here is: which one is right? Gut feeling: A3PS. But S9B might improve with a new FW update. And with my normal activities (one or two bigger climbs) this has a small effect.heartrate:
I like the OHR alot even I did not think that I would ever use it. I mainly use the chest strap for better accuracy and less battery consumption. But for some activities I donāt want to wear the chest strap, eg hiking, and I live on the compromise that (for me and my watch wearing style) the results are not always perfect.
A3PS is missing this feature of course.
What I like even more is the zones ring on the outer ring of the screen with the indicator in every parameter screen that shows me in which of my HR zones I am at the moment. So I can see that even when I am in the ascent values screenā¦screens/parameters:
up to 7 in S9B and 3 in A3PSā¦ it reduces the pressing and fiddling on the watch during the activity.apps:
I thought I would miss ambit appsā¦ until now, I donāt miss them to be honest.
My most important app was to change m/min ascent rate into m/h. But this can be selected by default in S9Bbattery:
I bought the A3PS because of very good battery life. S9B is even better.wrist strap:
A3PS gives me the impression with the screwed fixation it is indestructible. S9B with the quick release gives a less robust feelingā¦ who knows, itās just a feelingIn general I have a very good impression of S9B even there is room for improvement on small details for handling and some slightly bigger room for improvement on the gps accuracy and total ascent calculation for rolling terrain.
I see more things that need to be solved on SA side. For me and for the moment itās fine as some of the missing things can be done with Strava and Elevate extendā¦ of course having everything out of one hand is much appreciated!sorry, it became a bit longer but I did not cover all topicsā¦ if you have any questions, just let me know. If you give me some time I can even test something between A3PS and S9B.
edit:
route planning and sync to the watch is very easy with the SA and S9Bā¦ who knows, in case A3PS will be completely supported with SA it will be a big step forward. You can go on a short weekend trip, without laptop, lookup some trails, do a quick planning on the phone, sync to the watch and start biking or running
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@Brad_Olwin perhaps a written commitment to support the Ambit 2 line would go some way to endear Suuntoās customer base. There needs to be a long term plan to support legacy devices, the software development doesnāt fund itself.
Instead, they have thrown loyal legacy users under the bus with this, possibly to see the scale of the reaction before deciding whether they will bother with investment. Perhaps Suunto are hopeful third party apps will be developed which again will take Suunto off the financial hook in supporting the Ambit 2 and older models.
If this is the case, Suunto should do the decent thing and open source the interface logic in order for the continued fully functional use of the ambit 2, T6C and such devices.
Instead, Suunto naively expect their āloyalā customer base to upgrade with a corresponding pickup in sales. My other bet is, Suunto have designed obsolescence in their more modern devices, most probably through the battery life. This means that once bought into the ecosystem, you are committed to buy repeatedly. This of course does note affect the older devices which only required a recharge so often and actually could have their batteries changed without melting glue to deconstruct the device. I have replaced the battery on my 2R and the T6C battery was a user replaceable CR3032. Doesnāt lend itself to throwaway product life cycles does it.
Suunto should be ashamed. They have gone from a serious product supplier to one whose customer support is now seemingly controlled by marketing and bean counters in head office.
Hence the reason I will be returning my A3 Peak and slating Suunto to every club and military user of Suunto I can meet. Dont under estimate the power of your loyal user base to go viral on this and create real problems for Suunto.
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@mbga9pgf said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:
perhaps a written commitment to support the Ambit 2 line would go some way to endear Suuntoās customer base.
you seem to search the forum and support page not good enough
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Ive read it fine thanksā¦ and seen there are suggestions of fobbing off support to external providers, with reduced functionality (unless you pay a subscription). Not sure how this is meeting the requirements of Suuntoās customer base, or engendering future loyalty to the brand.
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Hi there,
this topic got quite lengthy so I may not have read every single comment, but I think I have got the main message. Iāve also read the e-mails Suunto sends out regarding the transition.
Now, Iāve been using an Ambit 2 since 2013 or so and got myself a Spartan (the model with Ambit-like GPS antenna and wrist HR) more recently. Iāve always synchronized using the cable that clamps the watch. Never used the app and I donāt own a compatible device for doing so. Of course with the used market littered with obsolete electronics it isnāt too hard to get hold of a compatible device to just perform the data transfer but to be honest, compared to a computer screen of at least 12" running Movescount, mapping a route on a 5" cellphone seems fiddly.
Either way, going down that route it still appears like the data gathered with the Ambit 2 wonāt be integrated with the data gathered with the Spartan. At least from the Suunto e-mails I understand that Ambit 2 data will be viewable on a web service (an evolution of the current Movescount) but it is said that this wonāt be compatible with my Spartan (which will require an app for everything). Is this true or will both sets of training data always be integrated (as if Iām actually one single person who just happens to use two Suunto watches)?
I admit owning and actively using two advanced watches (and not using an advanced phone to go with it) seems odd. But there is just stuff in both watches I like. Sure the Spartan is more sophisticated. Navigation is really nice, I like the way multisport works and for my commutes (which Iām tracking too as Iām usually hauling) it is nice to not have to wear a strap or a third party optical wrist sensor (like Mio Link or similar). But Iām not ready to let go of the Ambit 2 as I can program more advanced trainings like pyramid intervals etc. The Spartan only does intervals with equal length. As an alternative, is there a Suunto watch out that does everything the Ambit 2 does yet is compatible with the app (other than the Ambit 3)?
Not sure whether this is the place to do feature requests, but ideally Iād call for keeping the web service compatible with all current watches. I currently synchronize the Spartan with a cable, would love to just keep doing so and see all my training data in that one spot.
So yeah: TL;DR:
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Will the new web service also show my Spartan training data and will the app also show the Ambit training data so that I can see all my training data in one place?
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Is there a Suunto watch other than Ambit 3 that is compatible with the app service and still does everything the Ambit 2 does?
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Iād love to see synchronization over the cable compatible with newer watches too. In my case, the Spartan in particular. After all, this was one of the reasons I got this one. That I could use that single cable with both watches. Would be sad to see that thrown overboard.
Thank you for clearing things up!
Vinay -
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@vinay
the announcements leave quite some room for interpretationā¦
I understand that it is going into the direction that you are favouring: sync both watches to SA thru cable with Suuntolink and setup in the evolved MCI think many users would buy this watch that you are asking for right awayā¦ there is no hybrid of ambit and spartan/s-line at the moment
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@vinay as I understood the newsletter, the Movescount platform will āevolveā ā¦ more like ādevolveā in just the settings app for old non BT watches and all data and viewing/analyzing of data will be transferred to the mobile SuuntoApp (big ābooā from a lot of users).
The cable sync will actually evolve into all device sync to the mobile SuuntoApp. So all devices will get an option to cable sync to the new mobile platform - that part I fully support.
Now, about your problem with the mobile part of things ā¦ Suunto actually wants you to get a tablet or modern mobile device capable of running their app, they assume most people already have a smartphone and they also wrongfully assume most of their customers want more regular mainstream all day fitness tracking which in my opinion is downright stupid for an owner of a high-end robust multi sports watch.
They are actually transforming their lineup into dumb glorified fitness trackers for regular people who want to feel extra with an expensive watch and donāt actually train that much or do it occasionally ā¦ but just to take an instagram picture and post it on their profile to get the likes.
Damn I feel ranty today, but this is the message Suunto is sending us and I feel disappointed and let down. I am all for change and doing it better next time, but if doing it better for Suunto means using a goddamn phone to check my training data and do comparisons and progress analytics on a 4"-6" screen, I say screw that. -
Sounds to me like Suunto are trying to cut overheads by not having to pay for user community activity data storage.
As devices become more complex, they have more data to store per hour. I canāt imagine that maintaining that data for an indefinite period of time is something that suuntoās accounts department likes the sounds of (they will argue thatās what a paid subscription like Strava is for). It also smacks that Suunto donāt want to go to the expense of developing a multi-operating system fully featured desktop app, instead going for a more simple phone app.
Which is great if you deluded yourselves and think your customer base is amateur enthusiast, instead of prosumer.
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@mbga9pgf said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:
Sounds to me like Suunto are trying to cut overheads by not having to pay for user community activity data storage
Everything you see in Suunto App is still stored in the cloud. Storage is fairly cheap actually.
But, I can imagine, with the app caching everything, the processing cost on the server side should be lower, so the costs associated with hosting the cloud services should be lower, especially if we consider multiple updates per day of fitness data such as steps and calories.
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My understanding of that very flawed communication from Suunto is that MC web will just remain as a watch setup only website, rather than a move analysis frontend.
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@mbga9pgf said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:
Sounds to me like Suunto are trying to cut overheads by not having to pay for user community activity data storage.
As devices become more complex, they have more data to store per hour. I canāt imagine that maintaining that data for an indefinite period of time is something that suuntoās accounts department likes the sounds of (they will argue thatās what a paid subscription like Strava is for). It also smacks that Suunto donāt want to go to the expense of developing a multi-operating system fully featured desktop app, instead going for a more simple phone app.
Which is great if you deluded yourselves and think your customer base is amateur enthusiast, instead of prosumer.
Then Suunto should pay for our Strava subscription, since we paid a premium for their watches because it HAD a great web platform.
SHUT UP LEGS!
-Jens Voigt -
@fejker Thank you. Itās been a while and as the transition was initially planned near the end of summer, Iām surprised to see that there still is no clear timeline. I checked the list of compatible devices (see link below) and Iām quite surprised to see that it doesnāt list tablet devices. Only cellphones. Recent Apple cellphones apparently work, nearly all Android cellphones appear to have issues. Even more surprisingly Huawei cellphones are the most compatible of the lot even though (and correct me if Iām wrong) Huawei devices have been excluded from the Google Play store so probably canāt install new applications anyway. If Iād get some iOS or Android device, it needs to be cheap as it will work as a ātransfer dongleā primarily. A new Apple phone goes for well over what Iāve paid for both watches together! The Ambit 3 series are currently on sale on the Suunto website, without disclaimer/provisions. So any interested athlete could pick one up and expect full functionality (as advertised) for at least two years. With Movescount still fully functional for Ambit and Spartan watches (and probably others too) and the app being so inconsistent, I doubt theyād drop Movescount in less than two years. They canāt ditch all consumers outside the subset that happens to own a compatible phone from Apple. Agreed most potential customers probably own either an iOS phone or an Android phone (I realize Iām the odd one out) but I suppose buyers expect full functionality and looking at the list below, chances are slim that a buyer happens to own one of the tested and fully compatible ones! It wonāt make for a good first impression and it is not something they can afford in such a competitive market. So yeah, my expectations are that theyāll continue to support Movescount until two years after they quit selling watches initially designed for Movescount. This might even include the Spartan series, who knows. After all, isnāt the whole purpose of a four pole USB ācharging cableā to also transfer data? If it were just for charging, youād say two poles (hence a smaller connector on the watch) would be sufficient. Weāll see.
On a cooperative note, I did get a potentially Android compatible device recently. That is, I got a Pinebook Pro. It is a single board laptop computer with ARM core, able to run different linux flavors. This includes Android. It currently runs Manjaro linux from the on-board storage but the microSD slot is higher in the boot order so if I put Android 7 or 8 on the memory card, I can run that. Weāll see how it goes.
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@vinay said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:
I checked the list of compatible devices (see link below) and Iām quite surprised to see that it doesnāt list tablet devices
Thatās a list of tested devices, itās not quite the same as list of compatible devices. As of today, GSMArena lists 246(!) Android phones released just in 2020, no-one has resource to even pretend to check compatibility with every phone and tablet out there, each coming with number of firmware releases. Youāll probably be fine with nearly anything running Android 5 or newer, be it a tablet or phone. Though Iād rather go with some used yet popular model than some exotic piece.
What watch do you have? Asking, as for Ambit2 (as this is mostly A2 thread) the ātransfer dongleā part doesnāt make much sense.
If you managed without a smartphone / tablet till now, thereās no need to get one just for ātransfer dongleā for your (Ambit3 / Traverse?) watch. Just replace your current Moveslink2 installation with Suuntolink, create account though https://www.sports-tracker.com/ and configure Suuntolink with those credentials; pick a 3rd party service that lets you connect with Suunto App service without initiating connection from SA app (e.g Runalyze) and you should be all set, without ever seeing the Suunto App. And youāll sync though cable & PC.
BTW, Movescount is not going down, it will not host Moves at some point, but whole Ambit-line will still be configured though probably-renamed-Movescount site.
Please go through
https://www.suunto.com/Content-pages/digital-service-transition/?setcountry=en
and
https://www.suunto.com/Support/faq-articles/suuntolink/new-suuntolink-update/ -
Thanks a lot. Iāve had an Ambit 2S since 2013 or so and a Spartan with wrist HR over two years ago. My phone is a Nokia 800 Tough (running Kaios for an operating system) and even though it has the possibility to go on the internet, I merely use that to tether a laptop when I need that. I think my body and gear gets quite a beating. Luckily the Ambit watch is pretty tough and is in a much better shape than a Casio G-Shock watch Iāve been using for a couple of years! But yeah, I wouldnāt trust myself with a piece of glass for a phone ;).
Even though the possibility to receive notifications on a watch is nice (for when the kids are in school and Iām out riding mtb or bmx, good to know whether a received call is important or can be ignored), I usually donāt care about the connection to the phone. Basically if it continues to synchronize over the cable Iāll be more than happy :). I actually do have SuuntoLink om my computer and do use it for synchronizing the Spartan watch, but shut it down when it tries to synchronize the Ambit 2S and use Moveslink2 instead. Even though SuuntoLink claims that it did synchronize my moves, the Spartan moves appear in Movescount but the Ambit moves donāt so I thought it wasnāt working. Apparently it synchronizes them to the Suunto App then (which I am not using). The deal with the compatibility list was that if I would decide to invest in a used Android device (more and more devices and services seem to have moved to mobile platforms lately so it wouldnāt be for my Suunto devices exclusively) I would like to have some certainty that it is going to work. The compatibility list suggested that, if the tested sample would be representative, about 80% of the devices out there isnāt compatible.
But yeah, if I understand correctly I can continue to synchronize over cable using SuuntoLink, then analyze my data using SportsTracker. This sounds good. One thing I havenāt yet seen mention of, are the Suunto Apps for Ambit watches. The ones you can program yourself or the ones that have been programmed for you. I can program the Spartan for equal sized intervals but I can run a pyramid interval with the Ambit using one of the apps. If the new platform continues to allow for this functionality, Iād be 100% happy!
Either way, Iāll have to dig into those links you gave me. So thanks for responding and thanks for providing some links for further reading.
Cheers!
Vinay -
@fejker said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:
@mbga9pgf said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:
Sounds to me like Suunto are trying to cut overheads by not having to pay for user community activity data storage.
As devices become more complex, they have more data to store per hour. I canāt imagine that maintaining that data for an indefinite period of time is something that suuntoās accounts department likes the sounds of (they will argue thatās what a paid subscription like Strava is for). It also smacks that Suunto donāt want to go to the expense of developing a multi-operating system fully featured desktop app, instead going for a more simple phone app.
Which is great if you deluded yourselves and think your customer base is amateur enthusiast, instead of prosumer.
Then Suunto should pay for our Strava subscription, since we paid a premium for their watches because it HAD a great web platform.
Coming back to this I hope this is clear now that it aināt the case
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They are excited to sell you a new watch while there is nothing wrong with the Ambit2 you are using. And this is combined with the following FACTs:
My Ambit 2 has a very good battery life (compatible with outdoor backcountry activities) compared to the SHIT products Suunto 9,7,5
My Ambit2 is immune to getting all sort of SHIT notifications from my mobile phone which I prefer not to use when doing outdoor, backcountry type of activity
My Ambit2 navigation features are basic but work fine, and I love the weather functions.
My Ambit 2 uses a lot f customised user built apps that i do not seem to get anywhere in the SHIT Suunto 9,7,5
To me Suunto turned a cornerā¦ Suunto I came to know and use through my dive computers, very sturdy reliable dependable usable gear, I could trust my life and safety with.
Their outdoor/sports watches (up until the A3) were the same, indestructible reliable robust. "You were into Suunto because you were a sports minded outdoor enthusisast that wanted to be supported by gear that matched the activities
Now Suunto is nothing more than a lifestyle watch (just like fitbit) geared to the generation that wants to have gear, to obtain the image, of being sportive and outdoor minded, while lounging somewhere on a beach chair, looking a 100 times per hour at their watch to see what Whatsapp messages are coming in from their friends.
Suunto went from Be-Do-Have gear to Have-Do-Be gear, a big difference.Iām seriously thinking of switching to Garmin since they have reverse compatibility through a long line of products, hell even my first sync-able 16 year old Polar S710 I can still use with the IR sync dongle on my PC.
Suunto please come up with a better product strategy because I actually like you guys and I know for sure you will be dead in two years if you are going to try to compete with the Google/Samsung/Fitbit watches out there on the ālifestyleā segment.
Just make hard-core indestructible watches for the sports/outdoors men/women out here. (you can take hint from Coros there)
Cheers Reinout -
Could you try using a spoken more kindly?
- Also, I donāt know how you can define the suunto 9 and 5 battery like this. Suunto 7 is a smartwatch, not comparable to ambit. Your ambit2 does not reach more than 30 hours at maximum gps precision like suunto 9 and does not have endurance mode to push you up to 120h. It does not even reach Suunto 5ās 25h.
Notifications can be turned off and the navigation features of suunto 9 and suunto 5 are fantastic.
There are no apps for suunto 5 and 9, but they have a lot of features that ambit doesnāt have. I have also an ambit3, i know what iām saying. They are two different watches, from two different families, as the different name suggests.
When you refer to a lifestyle watch, you are perhaps referring to suunto 7, which is a smartwatch. As you can see, suunto 9 and 5, which have nothing to do with a smartwatch, are still on the list and meet everyone like me and you who want solidity, reliability and indestructible materials from the watch.
On the forum we had many people in love with their ambit who, once they switched to suunto 9, said they were enthusiastic. I advise you to try.
@TELE-HO @carloscarlata
- Also, I donāt know how you can define the suunto 9 and 5 battery like this. Suunto 7 is a smartwatch, not comparable to ambit. Your ambit2 does not reach more than 30 hours at maximum gps precision like suunto 9 and does not have endurance mode to push you up to 120h. It does not even reach Suunto 5ās 25h.
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@Saketo-Nemo and all you Ambit2 lovers
I am still using my Ambit2 and can pull data and push data to it using the PC based Suuntolink program as well as the smartphone based Suuntolink app.
There is no need for a new watch and I would be happy to share how one can get data to and from the Ambit2.
