Suunto ZoneSense
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@Mountain Same here. Can’t run nearly HFmax and ZoneSense shows me green. Nonsens at this time. ZoneSense isn’t really work at this moment.
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@Sportsfreund I think you do not understand the metric.
First, what is your HRmax? How have you calculated it? It doesn’t matter, neither the number. ZS is related to the metabolism. With HR, when you arrive at Z5 you say that you are in Z5, with only one beat, being tired or not. But with ZS, you need to be some time in there, because you need to be really there in yellow or red, I mean you can run 200 m at max, your HR will be Z5 but metabolically you aren’t there, but instead run 5 minutes at max, then you will see the red. Instead of saying that it doesn’t work you should put here some graphs and values and probably someone can help you.
Here you have my run from today, ZS totally matches my feelings. As clarification, after the WU and before the intervals I tried to enter in yellow (recommendation for a good WU before intervals) , due the time that I had to do the run I couldn’t do it properly but you can see that my pace was the same than in the intervals but I was in ZS green and that is pretty logical because I wasn’t metabolically “tired” yet.
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@cosme-costa for example. Do you know what a CooperTest is?
While all the Test, inclusive warm up and cool down the graph was in green zone. After 10min in cool down phase the graph switched into the colored zones. Not in time only afterwards. -
@Sportsfreund ZoneSense functions exceptionally well; however, it appears that understanding its mechanics presents a certain challenge.
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@Sportsfreund Of course I know what a Cooper test is! And if you know it you would agree with me that its científic value is, lets say… an approach as could be HRmax=220-age. I only take into account Cooper test as an comparison to see the evolution. If you have a very good aerobic base it could be that you did the test in green (ZS) or you are thinking that you have pushed but you haven’t.
Which watch do you use? Which were the values in the watch? I’ve read that could be some delay between the values in the watch and the app, that what you see in the app is not what you see in the watch, the app is like “delayed”. This theoretically is solved in iOS app but not yet in Android app, will be in next beta (info from the Spanish Forum)
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@cosme-costa No no. As I wrote. I run very nearly hfmax (I know this value from former Medizin Test)
The thing is that the green graph first switch backwards into the other valuecolors. Not in time.
You know what I mean. It does not work realtime it is very delayed.
Happy that your watches work in realtime.
I use the vertical.
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@Sportsfreund I use a Vertical too, so we should have the same behaviour.
I did a test lab some time ago, and the values from that test lab are not valid now. The values from your test lab are only valid the day that you did the test. One of the nice things of ZS is that it detects if you had a bad night or you are becoming ill or you are very rested.@Sportsfreund said in Suunto ZoneSense:
As I wrote. I run very nearly hfmax (I know this value from former Medizin Test)
But how much time? You can reach your max HR for very small time and you are not metabolically in red zone.
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@cosme-costa While the Cooper test time. You know what Cooper test is?
10 min warmup, 12 minutes run with all you have, 20 min cool down.
While all the time the graph shows green. In the last minutes of cool down it switched delayed backwards into the other zones.
BACKWARDS !!! - not in time. You know?And it is not true that all verticals are equal.
A lot of users at this time have a lot of issues with the actual Software. Mine don’t has any issues like this. So you can not compare a vertical with a vertical.PS: monitored this delay also in other long fast trainings. Example 10 km in HR 85%. Same here, all green and in the last minutes the Graph changes backwards in yellow areas.
So now belief me or not.
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@Sportsfreund said in Suunto ZoneSense:
@cosme-costa While the Cooper test time.
And it is not true that all verticals are equal.
A lot of users at this time have a lot of issues with the actual Software. Mine don’t has any issues like this. So you can not compare a vertical with a vertical.If the hardware is identical and the software too the behaviour should be the same within the tolerances of the sensors. If it is different, or something is broken or is due at different cases of use of the watch.
@Sportsfreund said in Suunto ZoneSense:
PS: monitored this delay also in other long fast trainings. Example 10 km in HR 85%. Same here, all green and in the last minutes the Graph changes backwards in yellow areas.
85% of some value that probably is not valid that day? Is logical that your you enter in yellow/red at the end, that is where your are more fatigued. I do not have your graphs and probably I do not know enough to read them but I tend to believe that you have a big aerobic base, without stimulus at high paces or sustained high HR.
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@cosme-costa mainly I am a rower with more than 1000km/year. Could be. I am observing my zone sense in the future.
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@Sportsfreund said in Suunto ZoneSense:
@tschogo that’s the point why ZoneSense doesn’t work.
It seems you are in a minority here. I have had laboratory tests as well for AT and LT and VO2M. ZS does a good job with those values when I feel great. On days when I am fatigued ZS does a great job as my set HR values are incorrect. I find ZS invaluable.
I have a substantial aerobic base having run ultramarathons for 14 years. I have a good idea of my max HR, you will not hit MaxHR on a Cooper test as the test is too long. Short 1-2 min all out uphill intervals will likely come close to your max HR. I suspect your HR zones are off and ZS is likely interpreting your efforts correctly.
85% of my HR max is anaerobic at 153 but nowhere near my LT at 163. I would run a Cooper Test at above my LT at 90% or more of my max HR. My last Cooper Test was 168 bpm avg for the 12 min test and ZS nailed my LT in fact, higher than my test.
PS I am 68.
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@Sportsfreund I am interested how Zonesense works for you in rowing.
I never rowed on water, only on ergs. For me Zonesense delivers plausible feedback and helped me to fine-tune my zone settings.
My intensity targets come from EXR where I regularly perform a ramp test. What I found out by now is, that my zones in running differ from the zones familiar to me from running.
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@Sportsfreund … or you’re just way fitter than you assume
! Actually one of my trainingpartners for the II. Dan training was an ex russian rower (quite on pro level) and then in his late 50s this guy was extremely fit and could actually train for hours without appearant signs of exhaustion. -
Very interesting to read. I think Suunto needs to address this more clearly in their ad/description for ZoneSense. With this I mean how crazy widespread ones AT can be on a daily basis (on a HR scale). To me, not being any sport scientist at all, it still feels crazy, that on one day AT can be at 140, the next at 160. But I‘m very curious to see where this journey goes and will use ZS on all my upcoming trainings.
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@tschogo said in Suunto ZoneSense:
Very interesting to read. I think Suunto needs to address this more clearly in their ad/description for ZoneSense. With this I mean how crazy widespread ones AT can be on a daily basis (on a HR scale). To me, not being any sport scientist at all, it still feels crazy, that on one day AT can be at 140, the next at 160. But I‘m very curious to see where this journey goes and will use ZS on all my upcoming trainings.
Mine vary as much or more than yours! I believe this is the power of ZS! I train primarily by RPE and ZS is scary good at matching my RPE. On days I feel even a little tired my AT has tanked according to ZS. I am primarily using ZS to keep my Endurance and Recovery runs easy enough.
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@borgelkranz this is one of my last rows on concept2. This is the graph from the app. On the watch it was shown always green. It does not work on the watch, only the result in the app is clear.
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@Sportsfreund and I can’t imagine the waves while the heartrate is constantly rising.
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@Sportsfreund thx for sharing. I am too stupid to upload pictures, it appears. If you can give me a hand I will post some.
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@borgelkranz Go to your pictures. Copy it and paste it here.
Yea this forum with its „ insert attachment“ does not work.
It only made for older user which still use a PC.
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@borgelkranz does your watch show the zone sense graph in realtime? Or also delayed or after end activity in the app?
