Is it a navigation BUG .. Distance/ETE/ETA remained empty despite I was not far from the itinery

[Mister PYC]

@łukasz-szmigiel

You are right, but still something a little bit more helpful simple could have been made which I think is easy (as the ending point is well known and part of the route loaded on the watch)

Rq ! in my example each circle as a 200m diametre. so you can see almost all the time my watch told me “out of route” and did not provide me any help … frustrating …

BTW

• think to it as if you were in the SUUNTO marketing team, you can sell it as a super argument … you get lost out of your route, do not worry your companion watch will not leave you alone
• think to it if you were positioning a ending POI or in reverse if the route you created on paper is in fact a impossible one (you did not realize on the map on your computer that the road was in fact in a dangerous area and you have to navigate 200 or 300 meter away from it still to reach your target … for exemple for military … the road is full of enemies, stil your commando has to shoot the target.

Today,
the watch says “you are off route” and also “I resign, get help by yourself” :

My proposal,
the watch says “you are off route” but also “Still I will give you some indications” toward the ending point which is the simplier point that the watch perfectly and systematically knows .

Much more sophisiticated proposal
not asked, as need more complex computation, but still could have been interresting as it allow to observe how you recover on the planned route

PS : My story dated long long time ago with my father when even GPS was of no use by us, believe me 100 meters in mountain is nothing when you are in fog … you can walk kilometers outside a 100 m range without realizing it, so the probablitiy that you come back in a 100 m range is almost nearby zero

[sartoric]

@mister-pyc
Out of curiosity … being in the fog with no idea of where to go, as you said, would you follow the “blue arrow” or the “green” one ?

Having a map, would you reconsider your choice ?

[DMytro]

@mister-pyc what about reversing the route? Say, you are lost and want to go back off route. How should watch tell whether you need info for start or for finishing?

I think it’s a good idea in a nutshell, but I would prefer watch asking me to switch to bearing navigation towards the end point/start point/poi if it detects prolonged off route activity or on demand

[isazi]

@дима-мельниченко said in Is it a navigation BUG .. Distance/ETE/ETA remained empty despite I was not far from the itinery:

I think it’s a good idea in a nutshell, but I would prefer watch asking me to switch to bearing navigation towards the end point/start point/poi if it detects prolonged off route activity or on demand

You can manually do that already, switch to POI, bearing, breadcrumbs, another route, or disable navigation altogether if wanted.

[DMytro]

@isazi also to a start/endpoint of a previously selected route?

[isazi]

@дима-мельниченко those are not POIs, but waypoints. If you have phone connectivity, you can create POIs, or even create a new route. If not, better you are prepared in advance.

[DMytro]

@isazi I’m aware. Just saying it would be nice to have as an option.

[Mister PYC]

@sartoric

it’s a super good question !!!

Neither the blue nor the green.

And this is exactly why I think this make interresting to have these informations => I will have first of all walked the way I was thinking to go BUT will have observed carefully how the 2 arrows and the distance indications will have spoken to me, permanently reevaluating my navigation options … for exemple … if I see the blue and the green arrow comes to the same angle even if I move, most surely I can go now straight and follow them … if you look to my exemple … this is exactly what will have happen at the end

The fog problem is not a big deal if I’m in a desert, because here I may decide to go straight (assuming there is no quicksand … anyway if there was the watch will not have told me in any case).

The fog problem is interresting to study in mountain because there are constraints (cliff, glaciers, holes, …) but that could also be an advantage, you may arrive to a point which could give you some precious indication (a old farm) and which is on your paper map.

Honestly speaking if I plan a route with such potential risks, I will for sure have also positionned multiple POI, so I will have some multpile backups plan …

I’m more thinking here as a markjeting guy … how could I have promoted the watch instead just to say “Ooopss sorry you are lost” … imagine you can say your watch act as an angel for you but not … this previous and expensive piece of modernity is now just a useless modern art which fall down in the first trap you put it in.

Joking of course … humm … half of joke

[Mister PYC]

@дима-мельниченко

You are totally correct, it will have been good.
But here I think you can use the other option that the watch is proposing you already …

If really you get lost and have a giant doubt that you could continue, the best is to do the road in the reverse side and come back in safety to your starting point, hence you can use the “petit poucet” feature and change th navigation to it.

This is why I did not suggest to propose either the ENDING or the STARTING point. your watch has already recorded the real start of your journey.

But… your question brings a very valuable point and this is exactly why I was suggesting an “advance angel mode” … if you have only the ENDING point navigation … you can never go back to the route you planned … because you have zero information to be back to it except at its end. in reverse if the watch has the capacity to determine the shortest point to be back to yoru planned road and display it … then you can recover at the beginning of your adventure and still join the start of your planned route … which was no more my case when I started from the wrong parking place even if located at a small reasonable distance

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@mister-pyc but it already does that with the find back.

[Mister PYC]

@дима-мельниченко

hello
I thaught more to your idea and I should confess that your proposal is even better that mine, much mor eeasy to put in place, not need to perform comple computations to search for any closest point between where I’m and the planned route.

Simply : BEARING mode indicating 2 points : the real point from where I started my journey (back to safety) and the targeted point of my itinery (soon to safety)

Doing so you can decide also continuously if you still continue or you prefer to stop and go back to where you came from … you can see at which moment potentially you reach the theoritical point of no return (especially for example if there are some consideration with water)

Your proposal is by far better than mine.

Here illustrated :

At the begining, having the navigation to shifted toward BEGIN and END will let you know how to reach back the planned road

At a certain time you will see that you may reach a point of no return …

[Mister PYC]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos

Yes this is exactly what I said with my poor english … talking about the “petit poucet” which is the french translation of tje find back.

Apologize my english is limited and sometimes I do not know the english term, my watch being in french mode

You saif exactly in 9 words what took me a chapter

Stil, the idea of @дима-мельниченко is a very good one.

Although you have this famous find back option, in case the watch observe you are out of route, switching to a “Angel mode” it will let you now how far you are from the beginning (theoritical or real … to be discussed, may be theoritical as you always will have the find back option to reach the real one) and the ending of yoru journey

[DMytro]

@mister-pyc I only think this shouldn’t be an automatic switch but rather an automatic suggestion. Otherwise it can be annoying to see bearing navigation instead of planned route in case one wandered off just a few hundred metres on purpose.

[isazi]

@дима-мельниченко not just annoying, even dangerous. You are walking on a trail, you miss one turn, your watch instead of telling you (as it correctly does now) “off route” starts navigating you somewhere that may be unreachable or dangerous, even giving you ETE!

[Mister PYC]

@isazi

Humm humm …

Thinking to recover through the phone is banned approach.
phone should be preserve for urgency, moreover nothing says that you can use it to create a new road … when you are around 4000 m … your phone has no more any 5G, 4G … 3G …

May be a suggestion here.

In the navigation option, it could be nice to propose a new option to navigate to the START or END of an course. I understand as per yoru comments that they are not stored per say as POI but still they are stored in the watch, so could be interresting to offer a navigation to them;

In such case, no need to double your itinery by these 2 POI, which is what I did and allowed me to see that the navigation to the summit was giving me back distance, ETE, ETA information and also compass navigation

[DMytro]

@isazi this may be omitted by imposing a constraint. Let’s say a suggestion similar to battery mode switching pops up iff more than 1 km of route or longer than 30min off route. These are more or less random numbers and exact ones need to be determined upon testing.

[Mister PYC]

@isazi

Humm humm

I was thinking to this … but I trend to disagree.
It is not different that having you create a wrong route which will push you to these embush.

Moreover if clearly on the watch there is an angel which appears
Then SUUNTO cannot be taken for any responsibility here.
It was clearly an indication to help you, not a compulsary direction to follow.

It is the same when you drive your car, you can go to 250km/h but it is 1) forbidden 2) dangerous, still I do not know a single beautiful luxuray car where you cannot either accelerate like a hell"s angel or drive far above the limits …

[isazi]

@дима-мельниченко the battery is pretty easy (one parameter) and not related to safety much (unless you are betting your life on your watch, navigating dangerous terrain with no visibility and relying only on your watch to survive).

[isazi]

@mister-pyc said in Is it a navigation BUG .. Distance/ETE/ETA remained empty despite I was not far from the itinery:

Moreover if clearly on the watch there is an angel which appears
Then SUUNTO cannot be taken for any responsibility here.
It was clearly an indication to help you, not a compulsary direction to follow.

You are either the greatest lawyer or comedian ever.

[Mister PYC]

@isazi
@Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

Is there a way ro rename this post into :

ANGEL MODE Proposal when your wath detect you are out of the route

.
it is definitively not a bug , now I catch the way the watch behave
It’s more a possible missing feature.

Sunday I was thinking it was a bug in my watch because I was surprise that the watch did not compute th einformation toward the ending of the route despite I was no more on it … for me it was just abecoming a computation between 2 gps point

Still this disccussion is super interresting and should be renamed in somethign positive