Next S9 generation without map feature

@frederick-rochette said in Next S9 generation without map feature:

As you can see in this video, the map feature is not planned for the next version of the S9…

I am very surprised to learn this because it is a feature I expected in the next S9. Am I alone?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vnK8GzI_jqs&fbclid=IwAR1dkyOzTxmOM7CftdPS7S31CjhgOan7wp1nHzZHSfDl9Ixq0kLP6A18hZA

I would rather prefer suunto to focus on “essential” (for me) things like sensors support, training load, structured workout than maps. And even on size, weight, confort.
As others said, on the fenix, it is not that awesome. Cool to have, but honestly, for me breadcrumb on the watch and good maps on phone/bike gps.

DMytro

I would prefer to have maps in my new watch. Main reason I bouth the current one was to be able to navigate with an active gps all the time without worrying about battery llife. I new from the start s9 could only do breadcrumb, but I didn’t like fenix 5+ at the time. I like how navigation works apart from the times there are multiple turns available - there the breadcrumb often fails as gps positioning in a forest or in a mountain valley isn’t always perfect which makes me guess and ofter go back from the false turn.
I’m not going to change the watch until I have to, but I hope by then there will be a map enabled suunto watch on the market with a decent battery life (ie not android wear).

Prenj

Would it be possible to have activity data synced to Suunto app during activity? I think it would be much more useful to have map on a bigger screen (offline available) with all the data from your watch (breadcrumb on the map, route, POI-s and all the stats).

I’d rather check the map on a phone screen than on my watch. Basic route, as we now have it on the watch is enough for me to quick glance that I’m on the right track, but if I want to see the bigger picture, I’d reach for the paper map in my case. But it would be pretty cool to utilize the larger phone screen for this. Even manual sync only when opening Suunto app would do.

We did have a “second screen” feature in Movescount app, but it didn’t use the whole phone screen.

I don’t know if any competitor have a similar feature but I’d find this highly valuable. What do you say?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@prenj I think s9 does support during activity route edit (as a hack). Meaning you can edit the route or create a new one, and sync it to the watch and re-select it or select a new one

Prenj

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos
I understand that. My suggestion was more for the live viewing your activity (or at least current location, breadcrumb, route and POI-s) in the Suunto app. That would be even better than having maps on the watch itself. In theory, as this syncing in the background is already possible, this could be done in Suunto app. No?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@prenj well it is possible to be done but it would require both devices to spend a significant amount of power more .

Prenj

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Even with just manual sync only when you request it from the Suunto app on your phone? I don’t know if it’s possible to do just a partial sync with only current location and breadcrumb while route and poi-s are already there in the Suunto app.

Ok now I’m maybe leaning too much to the features interesting to those into hiking and similar activities involving navigation, but this would be a really useful feature in my opinion.

And for the impact on battery consumption, I guess it would be much smaller than with using the maps in the watch.

Fenr1r

@prenj If you’re choosing to see your position on the phone anyway, why not just use the phone’s GPS and the larger selection of fully downloadable (sometime higher-grade topo) maps available for other apps? Save battery on watch by leaving it alone on airplane mode?

Fenr1r

I wonder if it’s possible* and would save enough battery to be worthwhile, to have an option to load & display only a static, (zoom-able?) map of the current position. No automatic direction orientation, no off-pos panning. Loaded from memory only on request, perhaps as an S+ SAFE or POI component.

The point being simply one of faster, route-less, phone-free relative location confirmation. “Which trail/creek/cliff is this?” “Where am I along this river/fence line?” “How far am I into this forest/bog/quicksand … and (maybe using zoom) where is the nearest area that isn’t any of the above?”

The main obvious problems arise from the extra battery drain from the redraws during zooms and the loss of detail/clarity as the scale increases, so perhaps this baby-map/enhanced SAFE should be restricted to the highest detail map (& thus) tightest area. As long as the loading lag was shorter than firing up the phone or applying coords to a paper map, it would be a win.

It’s not unlike @Mff73’s route+trail junction-clarifier concept, only minus the route and, possibly, junction. But with, necessarily, an entire, detailed area map (at least as image tiles) on the watch. Just waiting.

*And if anyone else would even want it.

Prenj

@fenr1r said in Next S9 generation without map feature:

@prenj If you’re choosing to see your position on the phone anyway, why not just use the phone’s GPS and the larger selection of fully downloadable (sometime higher-grade topo) maps available for other apps? Save battery on watch by leaving it alone on airplane mode?

Because watch still has better battery life, but lacks big screen that would be beneficial for looking at the map. Most of the time I don’t need the map, route in the watch is just enough, but from time to time, I’d like to check the position in the map, identify some mountain peak, hut or something to get the better idea of my surroundings.

I don’t think checking the map from time to time on your phone, without use of phones GPS would affect the battery much.

Of course having offline maps in Suunto app would be great. I’d even be willing to buy detailed topo maps if the Suunto app offered this sync of location and breadcrumb, while showing chosen route and POI-s during activity.

DMytro

@prenj not every phone is build to last the way suunto watches are. I stash mine into a waterproof pocket of my trailrunning vest (convinient for hiking also) and use it rarely. I agree that map on the watch is not to look for small details, but would be nice to take the right turn. I think just this usecase can be solved without having an actual map. Just by adding way more waypoint types. Like three, four, five road crossings with the one to be taken highlighted.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@дима-мельниченко 76 pois are in my watch. It displays them. I use them for triangulation etc even without a route

Prenj

@дима-мельниченко said in Next S9 generation without map feature:

@prenj not every phone is build to last the way suunto watches are. I stash mine into a waterproof pocket of my trailrunning vest (convinient for hiking also) and use it rarely. I agree that map on the watch is not to look for small details, but would be nice to take the right turn. I think just this usecase can be solved without having an actual map. Just by adding way more waypoint types. Like three, four, five road crossings with the one to be taken highlighted.

Of course it isn’t. And it doesn’t need to be. If it was and if it had battery life for 20h+ of always on display, for some use case, you could just strap it to your forearm and use app that you find convenient.

I just say that since there is already some syncing going in the background, maybe Suunto app could be utilized to offer maps to watches who can’t display them on watch display.

Ambit3 had a feature called “second screen” in Movescount app, that actually showed the map with your current position too. It was not utilizing the whole mobile phone screen, but it’s an example what could be done.

DMytro

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos well it’s not an automatic signal each turn, is it?
Probably fine to determine general direction, but not quite the thing for each specific turn, right?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@дима-мельниченко POIS not waypoints.

So POIS like

Home
Peak at x
Water at X

Like having a whiteboard and putting all the POIS you know. It creates a visual reference to where you are in realation to this whiteboard grid

DMytro

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos yes, i got you. It’s a good way to have a feel for distance and your own position in the outdoors, but If you want to follow a specific route, it won’t do any good. I’m not complaining - just explaining my use case scenario.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@дима-мельниченко correct

cosme.costa

I think we should differentiate two options:

1.- Maps in the watch for an adventure without following any route: Here I do not have experience and I do not believe that such a tiny screen can help.

2.- Following routes: I think we put a lot of importance to the map in the watch and not in the fact that most of the maps providers do not have all the trails or paths marked. I mean, how many of us have downloaded a popular route that then when you check it in SA is not following the map paths? This happens a lot in my area, you use trails that are not in the maps. So, here the use of the map is to check if you have something around you, for that you need tod zoom out in a watch, and again you hit with the tiny screen.

I like how it works now, but I would like to something more visual to follow routes, like arrows where there is a crossing (no text). Something that let me run faster when following a route. If I’m not running or not doing a tempo run is not a big deal because you do not loose to much time when you miss one crossing.
I have a bike computer (Garmin) with maps for my MTB rides and in my opinion is better for some tricky crossings and when you are a little bit lost to see if you have some path around you but not much more. In fact, when you have two paths that have a little angle between them you can also be in the wrong one having a map, it has happened to me.

Bulkan

For me there are two things:

Maps like the S7 has implemented in a brilliant way. Are useful, really useful when you are exploring
Routing maps. Here is where the challenge is very big. Only one brand has maps but they had the technology before and the resources.

If I need a map is because I’m for more of one hour and in that case I wear a vest 2L with hydration (here is very sunny, humidity…) so I finally carry a TwoNav with vector, raster, the heatmaps of strava and orto maps.

Would I like to have maps? Yes but is not as easy as looks like reading @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos.

Fenr1r

@cosmecosta

For 1. There is the at-a-glance position-off-paths I mentioned above. It does require high quality maps, tho’. Possibly better than OSM for the reasons you give in …

Absolutely … which is why @Mff73’s icon suggestion seems good. Assuming the planner SW represents the junction accurately at all, it should get the number of crossing paths correct*. Thus you only need to know which notionally numbered exit to use, not its real-world departure angle.

(*Also assuming no additional tracks have been stomped thru’ in the interim.)