What I love from S9B and not so much after an A3P
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Easiest example would be an thought experiment; imagine a descent from a tall mountain on a sunny day with a bike at 55mph and trying to look at the screen with 3 data fields of A3P vs. 3 or 7 at S9B
which one would require less time to glance at? -
@lexterm77
you can do that experiment if you want, Iām still tired of being injured from last year
living sideways
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@Brad_Olwin Of course, this depends on every person. However, I cannot see how the possibility to add more screens (something that, if I am not mistaken, has been raised in the S9 firmware suggestions thread) would harm people wanting less screens. Comparing A3P and S9B in terms of readability, I found the former to be much better.
@sky-runner I totally agree with the WP screen in A3P was much better. On the other hand, the capabilities of the watch for other sport information are impressive. My guess is that they are targeting a different group. What I can hardly understand is why they removed such a good options and interface design in the transition to S series (or, at least, in the S9B, clearly targeted to mountaineers and so). -
Thatās really interesting; I came to the Ambit3 from a multisports/triathlon background so was mainly interested in the multiple configurable sports modes, pool swimming features and complex intervals - but have really appreciated the navigation/outdoors facilities as Iāve done more fell and trail running.
From what Iād read and the features that Iāve seen are missing from the Spartan / S-series watches I had assumed that Suunto were leaving the āmultisportsā market and moving to be a trail runner / navigation / outdoor leisure type device.
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@TELE-HO
My left leg open fracture (bone trough skin) hasnāt healed after 34 years. There is still a mark where bone impacted and where bone exited my skin.
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@Efejota said in What I love from S9B and not so much after an A3P:
@Brad_Olwin Of course, this depends on every person. However, I cannot see how the possibility to add more screens (something that, if I am not mistaken, has been raised in the S9 firmware suggestions thread) would harm people wanting less screens. Comparing A3P and S9B in terms of readability, I found the former to be much better.
@sky-runner I totally agree with the WP screen in A3P was much better. On the other hand, the capabilities of the watch for other sport information are impressive. My guess is that they are targeting a different group. What I can hardly understand is why they removed such a good options and interface design in the transition to S series (or, at least, in the S9B, clearly targeted to mountaineers and so).Perhaps you fail to notice that the A3P shows distance to waypoints and start/finish as the crow flies in a direct line and not on the route path. This was the single biggest drawback and problem for me with the A3P as I am often off trail either doing mixed trail run/mountaineering or SkiMo. I wished and longed for on route accurate distances and purchased a few Garmin models out of this frustration.
The S series show distance as the route is plotted, I suspect having a Waypoint screen is substantially more complicated on the S series due to this change. I for one would not go back and can live without the waypoint screen as my distances now are route-based and not on a straight line that I cannot possibly follow due to cliffs/false summits/etc.
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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@Brad_Olwin I know that limitation and agree, as I said, that the ETE/ETA on route is brilliant. But I miss that functionality in other situations and it is hard for me to understand why it has been removed as a navigational thing. Particularly useful when added to the possibility to include coordinates only using the watch (for instance, for a refuge for which coordinates are frequently known).
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@Brad_Olwin Yes, I know perfectly that Ambit series shows the straight distance to a waypoint and S9 shows distance on route. But why should that be preventing S9 from having a dedicated waypoint screen? Whatās the connection?
I suspect the main reason it wasnāt included is the absence of āViewā button and not having an otherwise easy way to switch navigation views with the new UI because that does fit the new UI paradigm. I guess whoever designed the UI tried to fit that because of you go down from the navigation screen (i.e. the navigation menu), at the top that shows the navigation route name and the route ETE/ETA in a really tiny font. That UI could be changed a bit to take more of the screen and to become more useful to show the next waypoint with all the info. That would be a good start, although I guess that still wouldnāt be accessible when the watch is locked.
By the way, if you go off-route in S9, the distance to next waypoint field becomes empty, which is kind of bad if the route isnāt perfect. I remember it happened to me in one of the races when the race got slightly rerouted in the last moment.
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@sky-runner said in What I love from S9B and not so much after an A3P:
@Brad_Olwin Yes, I know perfectly that Ambit series shows the straight distance to a waypoint and S9 shows distance on route. But why should that be preventing S9 from having a dedicated waypoint screen? Whatās the connection?
I suspect the main reason it wasnāt included is the absence of āViewā button and not having an otherwise easy way to switch navigation views with the new UI because that does fit the new UI paradigm. I guess whoever designed the UI tried to fit that because of you go down from the navigation screen (i.e. the navigation menu), at the top that shows the navigation route name and the route ETE/ETA in a really tiny font. That UI could be changed a bit to take more of the screen and to become more useful to show the next waypoint with all the info. That would be a good start, although I guess that still wouldnāt be accessible when the watch is locked.
By the way, if you go off-route in S9, the distance to next waypoint field becomes empty, which is kind of bad if the route isnāt perfect. I remember it happened to me in one of the races when the race got slightly rerouted in the last moment.
I think the connection may also be calculations for a Waypoint screen would have to be continuously updated enroute as well.
Agreed on the tiny font, would love to see that improved and the last point! Would be nice to have some information as to how far you are off route.
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@sky-runner said in What I love from S9B and not so much after an A3P:
if you go off-route in S9, the distance to next waypoint field becomes empty, which is kind of bad if the route isnāt perfect.
@Brad_Olwin said in What I love from S9B and not so much after an A3P:
Would be nice to have some information as to how far you are off route.
And if youāre not racing or otherwise rigidly route-adherent, it would be nice to pick a waypoint down your route at which to rejoin, after you have skirted some newly impassable terrain (for instance). Given the expired utility of that immediate stretch of mapping, bearing and crowflight distance keep you oriented towards your useful WP.
However, given that it is apparently too much to have both systems available at all on the same watch, it seems really unlikely that one would ever be able to switch mid-route-navigation.
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@lexterm77
not niceā¦ I hate accidents, how they set you back in fitness and cancel all your plans! -
@Fenr1r said in What I love from S9B and not so much after an A3P:
@sky-runner said in What I love from S9B and not so much after an A3P:
And if youāre not racing or otherwise rigidly route-adherent, it would be nice to pick a waypoint down your route at which to rejoin, after you have skirted some newly impassable terrain (for instance). Given the expired utility of that immediate stretch of mapping, bearing and crowflight distance keep you oriented towards your useful WP.
However, given that it is apparently too much to have both systems available at all on the same watch, it seems really unlikely that one would ever be able to switch mid-route-navigation.
Two improvements to S9 that A3P does not have that are relevant to your comments.
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You can start a route at any time or rejoin a route or reverse, the watch will automatically detect where you are. You can use the new SuuntoPlus Bearing for this, which is available in Navigation at any time, I see this as somewhat solved and quite flexible.
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A route can be uploaded into the watch during exercise while offline as long as it was saved in SA. So, I now plan bailout routes for my very long days in the mountains in case of storms or I underestimate my speed. I can then load the different route out and begin navigation anew.
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@Brad_Olwin said in What I love from S9B and not so much after an A3P:
somewhat solved
I prefer control of my own route direction, so automatic detection and its interesting foibles amid forested switchbacks (experienced) isnāt an improvement for me, though I can absolutely see others preferring it.
My point is that you can pick the waypoint to which you want to return from a watch menu on the A3P and see the distance and bearing. Skirting something (usually) or other improvisation (often) describes an arc for which radial navigation is well-suited. The rest of the userās attention can be devoted to not sinking into a bog or sliding down a landslip or whatever. It might not be the very best for speed but thatās at the user end of responsibility.
S9 gives me the route shape and the scale and, as you pointed out, no distance to any WP. With the (alternative) Bearing Nav, thatās more than a couple of button presses to invoke the GoTo and, unless within eyeshot, itās map time.
The (my) problem isnāt the automatic rejoining or reversing of a route ā¦ itās relocating the thing at an optimal, or at least predictable, point. For ease of use in that regard, A3P offers only a couple of button presses.
Fine (and not actually an answer to my use case) to have bailout routes but, of course, thatās a phone app, not watch capability (unless the S9 can pull that route from the phone via its own menu system). For which you need phone time.
As ever, Iām not saying one system should exist in isolation. Neither is a substitute for the other.
