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[pescacebesforum]

@tiftif Not sure in English, but is the same in Spanish

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@radlwadl

Perhaps I am seeing something wrong.

I joined this group that you mentioned https://www.facebook.com/groups/304300433096554/?ref=group_header and browsed all posts from now and back to January 16th that this announcement was made.

I saw for sale :
2 Spartan
1 S9
2-3 Ambits
1 traverse
2-3 Polars
2-3 Garmins

And one request for Searching for A3P Saphire for 999euro ? (what?)

What am I missing here or am I confused about your point?

[radlwadl]

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
OK - not every watch sold on this 2nd hand market is a Suunto, but now I got your awareness
And I’m still of the opinion that most of them are Suunto’s.

It seems that I summed the skimo-group’s offers with the one in https://www.facebook.com/groups/166397423552689/?ref=group_header - which is a group for mountain gear in general.

Browsing the mountain gear group, I see the oldest this year’s announcement for a watch dating to March, 24th. Back to that date I see:

• Suunto Spartan Sport Black HR
• Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR All Black
• Suunto Spartan Sport Writst HR Baro
• POLAR RS100 (which is a HR monitor only, and IMHO can’t be compared here)
• Garmin Fenix 3
• Apple Watch Series 4 (hmm, do we want to compare this with an Ambit2?)
• Suunto Ambit 3 Peak
• SUUNTO Traverse Sapphire Black Outdoor GPS-Uhr
• SUUNTO Ambit3 Sport
• Suunto X3 HR
• Suunto traverse alpha

This sums up to seven Suunto watches, one Garmin (one Apple, one Polar)…

Kindly excuse, but when you did the effort to browse the skimo gear group, why didn’t you note the exact results? “2-3 Ambits”, “2-3 Garmins”, “2-3 Polars” - 2 or 3?
And what models did you find?
As far as I see, the two Polars are M400 models - a simple HR monitor. Do you really want to take them into account?
Nevertheless you’ve got 6 (or 7) Suuntos on the one hand and 2 or 3 Garmins (which is in my opinion the biggest opponent) on the other. With the simple Polar M400 HR monitors the 6-7 Suuntos face 4-6 other watches. Suunto is still in the lead or at least equal to all the others.

Using the skimo-gear groups search function, and searching for either Polar, Garmin or Suunto I find

• 2 Polar M400
• 1 Garmin Forerunner
• Suunto Spartan Sport
• Suunto Baro 9
• Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR Baro
• SUUNTO Spartan Trainer Wrist Hr
• Suunto traverse alpha
• Suunto Ambit 3 Peak

I know, that this is not an accurate 2nd hand market analysis, there maybe double posts in both the groups, maybe my Facebook Algorithm filters different than yours and there are plenty of other 2nd hand markets in the web. Perhaps Suunto sold much more watches than any other competitor, so it would be clear that Suuntos are offered more often in 2nd hand markets than the other manufacturers.
It’s just a spotlight to two 2nd hand groups in the web.
I posted this, because at last weekend’s Mezzalama skimo race we had a discussion with some athletes from Italy, sitting on the same table at the “Pasta-Party”. They lost trust in Suunto, too. And below of one of the Suunto offers I read the comment, that it seems that that only Suunto watches are offered.

There’s more than only negative vibrations out there when talks come to Suunto. People are angry and are looking for alternatives. That’s my point.

[Markus Hauhia]

A smart phone app is a useful companion for a watch, but it just doesn’t cut it for any serious use. That’s just an inherent feature of a small touch screen. I don’t do my work on my smart phone, I don’t do taxes on my smart phone, I don’t use spreadsheets or write documents on my smart phone, I don’t watch movies or game on my smart phone. A proper desktop app or a web-based application is a must. I disliked how limited the Movescount app was, but at least there was a pretty decent web-version that I could use. If the current iteration of Suunto App is barely usable for someone like me, who just uses the basic features, it probably doesn’t serve any purpose for more serious users or professional athletes. Making a service worse to save money does not seem like a sustainable business model to me.

Considering that it is the smart watches with their rudimentary sports tracking features that are eating into Suunto’s market share, it would seem obvious for Suunto to focus on customer retention and making their software more feature rich and professional, rather than going to the completely opposite direction.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@radlwadl Sorry I did not search I just went and browsed back to jan 16. I was wondering how severe is that problem you mention (about people selling Suuntos on that group only)

As quoted here https://forum.suunto.com/post/26403

Whenever sport watches are sold it’s a Suunto.
Just as an information…

And then that sparked the rats leaving the ship

To my findings I dont see anything that relates to that (in the particular facebook group) but Ill pass don’t want to start a argument/debate here.

My role here is rather to tranfer your feedback so I do need to double check facts.

[Saketo Nemo]

@radlwadl said in Important news concerning our digital services:

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
OK - not every watch sold on this 2nd hand market is a Suunto, but now I got your awareness
And I’m still of the opinion that most of them are Suunto’s.

It seems that I summed the skimo-group’s offers with the one in https://www.facebook.com/groups/166397423552689/?ref=group_header - which is a group for mountain gear in general.

Browsing the mountain gear group, I see the oldest this year’s announcement for a watch dating to March, 24th. Back to that date I see:

• Suunto Spartan Sport Black HR
• Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR All Black
• Suunto Spartan Sport Writst HR Baro
• POLAR RS100 (which is a HR monitor only, and IMHO can’t be compared here)
• Garmin Fenix 3
• Apple Watch Series 4 (hmm, do we want to compare this with an Ambit2?)
• Suunto Ambit 3 Peak
• SUUNTO Traverse Sapphire Black Outdoor GPS-Uhr
• SUUNTO Ambit3 Sport
• Suunto X3 HR
• Suunto traverse alpha

This sums up to seven Suunto watches, one Garmin (one Apple, one Polar)…

Kindly excuse, but when you did the effort to browse the skimo gear group, why didn’t you note the exact results? “2-3 Ambits”, “2-3 Garmins”, “2-3 Polars” - 2 or 3?
And what models did you find?
As far as I see, the two Polars are M400 models - a simple HR monitor. Do you really want to take them into account?
Nevertheless you’ve got 6 (or 7) Suuntos on the one hand and 2 or 3 Garmins (which is in my opinion the biggest opponent) on the other. With the simple Polar M400 HR monitors the 6-7 Suuntos face 4-6 other watches. Suunto is still in the lead or at least equal to all the others.

Using the skimo-gear groups search function, and searching for either Polar, Garmin or Suunto I find

• 2 Polar M400
• 1 Garmin Forerunner
• Suunto Spartan Sport
• Suunto Baro 9
• Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR Baro
• SUUNTO Spartan Trainer Wrist Hr
• Suunto traverse alpha
• Suunto Ambit 3 Peak

I know, that this is not an accurate 2nd hand market analysis, there maybe double posts in both the groups, maybe my Facebook Algorithm filters different than yours and there are plenty of other 2nd hand markets in the web. Perhaps Suunto sold much more watches than any other competitor, so it would be clear that Suuntos are offered more often in 2nd hand markets than the other manufacturers.
It’s just a spotlight to two 2nd hand groups in the web.
I posted this, because at last weekend’s Mezzalama skimo race we had a discussion with some athletes from Italy, sitting on the same table at the “Pasta-Party”. They lost trust in Suunto, too. And below of one of the Suunto offers I read the comment, that it seems that that only Suunto watches are offered.

There’s more than only negative vibrations out there when talks come to Suunto. People are angry and are looking for alternatives. That’s my point.

I am also a ski mountaineer, among the many sports I practice. Among my friends, if we talk about those who run, suunto and garmin they content their wrists at around 50%, when we talk about ski mountaineering, mountaineering and mountain in general, where navigation and reliability are a fundamental component, suunto is the most popular watch on the wrists of my mountain friends. This at least for me.

As for the negative vibrations, it seems to me quite obvious that switching from a web-based system (Movescount) and App, to one based only on the App (Suunto App), cannot make us happy. But they are chat from Bar. Who uses Suunto for years knows well how much the company holds to its customers. I myself, who first requested the Suunto App web counter on this forum, are CERTAIN not to be disappointed. I already know that Suunto will not betray my expectations, precisely because they are those of many.

[Brad_Olwin]

@radlwadl I would add the following as well. In Europe there are far more Suuntos than Garmin watches (my anecdotal experience from one trail race in France) while in the US most are wearing Garmin. My browsing shows (I did not quantify) more Garmins for sale in the US market place near me than Suuntos just because of the sheer number of each. So if you want to get quantitative and realistic about numbers they should be based on the percentage of brand ownership and not assuming the same numbers are distributed for each brand. My day job is a scientist and I do have to be concerned how quantification is done.

[freeheeler]

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
I must honestly say that I absolutely don’t envy you for your tasks from Suunto.
I have read some topics and posts and I have the impression that Suunto is desperately trying to calm their customers with the help of moderators.
I’m not convinced if this is the right strategy, but how should I know, I’m a design engineer and did not study economics or business admin at all… it’s up to other people to run companies successfully and make sure they have happy customers.
But I am not sure if passing on the impression and the mood in a forum is a very scientific way for product development. Maybe Suunto is doing it differently and I don’t know.
To be honest I hope they do. But here’s the main word: don’t know!
I haven’t heard of a straight forward strategy and customer information for a while and that’s what makes customers angry.
I can imagine that a good handful of people decide for a Garmin as per now they don’t know where Suunto is ending up. Of course you can pick a third party web interface for analysis but that is absolutely not what you expect when you pay 700,- CHF for a watch.

I did not do second hand market analysis either, but it is suspicious that not only I see this tendency and not only on one second hand page.

I said this some times in this forum: I WISH that Suunto is doing the right thing and will have tons of happy customers eventually (also Ambit users!!). But per today, we don’t know…

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@TELE-HO please don’t get me wrong, perhaps it was bad for me to comment here.
I am not trying to calm anybody down I just read and sometimes I cannot hold my self if there is something that does not look as advertised.

I have no intention to calm people but rather to help. I don’t work for this forum that is at my free time. I will soon enough, for other/personal reasons, remove my presence from here, making this forum perhaps more neutral, for at least some time.

That said I can assure you from our moderators only @Brad_Olwin and @Joaquin are external field testers for Suunto with limited and little contact to Suunto and only in the context of testing. The rest of the people are just people who used this thread in the past to become so https://forum.suunto.com/topic/756/the-call-for-moderators-mods .

Have a great evening all.

PS You pay for the materials and EU build of a watch. The price tag is there for other Premium material brands as well.

[Saketo Nemo]

https://www.suunto.com/it-it/Content-pages/transizione-dei-servizi-digitali/?platform=hootsuite

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

Hi all there is a new update on this:

https://forum.suunto.com/topic/2382/april-transition-update

I am locking this in favor of continuing the conversation on the next update