Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?
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@Egika Fair points—and I agree the V1 has received a lot of updates over time, no doubt about that.
Still, reaching hardware limits is something that’s typically known well in advance during product design. So while all these additions do consume resources, it doesn’t fully rule out the idea that certain features are being held back or prioritized for newer models.
Also, the fact that competitors manage to deliver similar navigation capabilities on comparable hardware makes the limitation argument a bit less clear-cut.
In any case, I guess it comes down to what’s realistically still possible on the V1.
For that reason, I’ll probably end up going for the Vertical 2, just to have the full package of updates and features going forward—even if that means moving to AMOLED instead of MIP, which I still prefer. Not sure if that’s a good or bad thing, but it feels like the most future-proof option right now.
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@Egika I’m not in a conspiratory side and I do not think Suunto did not update the SV1 on pourpose but you listing the upgrades that has received the SV1 doesn’t help the SV1 owners, myself included. Is like saying: “you had enough”.
SV1 was advertised to be one for adventures, and the last update is just about that, and the SV1 is the one who doesn’t receive it. Even the SRs has receiced the full update, when it is the little brother.
As @gerasimos says, It is difficult to us to assimilate it when other brands are doing it with theoretical equal or less capable watches.
As I have said in other posts I could have bought the SR because, but I went to the SVTS because it /s/was the one for long routes/ultras/bike…, theoretically both have the same hardware except for the MIP/AMOLED, NFC chip and HR sensor/sleep algorithm. I hope I do not regret it, because the new functionalities are the ones that I would use.
I would like to know more about the progress in the SV1 optimization, if we are advancing and if we will get something soonish.
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@cosme.costa
Actually I cannot help with the status of Suunto Vertical.
And I was not trying to say “you had enough”. I was trying to explain the current situation. I thought with listing those changes, that were made and most likely eat up resources, it would be easier to understand that this in not just a marketing descision.
In fact there were many more changes
Plus you might not have noticed, but Suunto Race has not received the full update, but has also run into a limitation (which is in the new maps display, like labels on contour lines, etc).
Me guessing: Probably Race received some more memory due to the higher resolution display compared to Vertical
Be assured that Suunto also is not happy with the current situation.
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If Suunto releases MIP bike computer then I don’t need MIP Vertical anymore and can switch to Amoled
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@gerasimos usually, “reaching hardware limit” is not something well known in advance, you plan for what you need, you buy what you need, you use what you need, because buying more than what you need is just a waste of money, PCB space, and even battery life, so choosing a microcontroller is a balanced act, and “provisioning for later” is a very, very hard task especially talking after 3 years, and important company restructuration (Suunto’s last 3 years where not easy, and definitely not the ideal space to think about the possible future updates size when the company was being sold, restructured, etc…).
Also, its pretty hard to compare with competitors, because, yes, they are doing roughly the same stuff , but hardware µcontroller choices are by the dozen, and even inside each lineup, you have a lot of combination of cpu power, ROM, RAM, features.
For example, take the STM32 H7 line :
https://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers-microprocessors/stm32h7-series.html
its just, a single manufacturer, a single chip line from the STM32 range of products, and yet the flash storage range from 620kb to 2MB, and even the processing power varies from a single core at 200Mhz to a dual core at 400Mhz, inside the same “STM32H7” brand, in total there are 12 combinations !Once the updates start taking more space, you make do with what you have free, until you can’t do it easily, then you have to take time and man-power to optimize, find code that can take less space, do tricks with off-chip storage, etc., but its not easy
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@elipsus Thanks for the detailed explanation
I appreciate the insight. I don’t really have the technical knowledge to go that deep into hardware topics, but I can understand that all these factors together define the limits of a device.
That said, I still stand by my point: when a company sells today a watch at the “same price” with a MIP display, but it ends up receiving fewer or more limited updates compared to the newer V2 with an AMOLED screen, it can create confusion for new customers—and eventually lead to disappointment.
In the end, the V2 turns out to be more than just a flashlight and a display upgrade…
Most people who chose a device like this did so because they wanted a hardcore solar outdoor watch (700€)—so seeing it start to feel limited after just a few years is not ideal.I still believe this is part of a broader strategy that allows the company to keep evolving its product line—and that’s totally fair from a business perspective
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@Elipsus said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
Once the updates start taking more space, you make do with what you have free, until you can’t do it easily, then you have to take time and man-power to optimize, find code that can take less space, do tricks with off-chip storage, etc., but its not easy
As I understand it, we are not talking about storage aka ROM, but sheer memory. And as you might be able to free ROM, it is way harder to free RAM without compromising the speed of the execution. Even more so as those CPUs are rather limited in its computing power…
We’ll see what Suunto can achive to resue the situation for the Vertical owners.
@Egika said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
Plus you might not have noticed, but Suunto Race has not received the full update, but has also run into a limitation (which is in the new maps display, like labels on contour lines, etc).
Indeed, I missed that part. So, I’m even more lucky to have a Race S.
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@aiv4r I would love to see the sales on the Apex 4. I am curious how a MIP screen is selling at that price point. The Pace 3 and the Nomad are budget so I am not sure they could be compared.
Suunto Vertical, Race, Race 2, Race S and Run. Rocking the Vertical 2 Titanium at the moment.
Garmin: Fenix 7X, Epix Pro 51mm, Forerunner 265.
Coros: Pace Pro, Apex 4 -
I haven’t read through this whole thread but I’m not a fan of AMOLED, hence why I’ve not upgraded my original Vertical. IMO there’s absolutely nothing wrong with MIP and hopefully we will always have an alternative to the eye-burner that is AMOLED
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oooh yes, the lock in watch mode!
yes it would be nice to have the update on V1. I can definitely do very good without labels on the map, but the rest would be nice to have.
honestly I can also live with what we haveliving sideways
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@Stavrogin can’t speak to sales, but the A4 MIP is really darn good
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@freeheeler climb v3 update on SV1 would make me happy, that’s the only thing I would need to make my SV1 almost perfect ; actually climb v2 has some big cons. Not sure labels on maps would be readable (it’s a step forward on my SRs, mainly for altitude lines ; for the rest it’s not enough to be a game changer for now, there is not so many place names for instance, neither street/road names).
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@Tieutieu
do you mean the S+ climb app? -
@freeheeler nope I mean climb guidance
