Zonesense readings

[Ian Beveridge]

@MKPotts
I am not getting HRV data from the fit file when ZS is deactivated.
I have not had any dropouts of ZS data when it was working. The real time counter was jamming but data for the complete workout was still stored unaffected and synced to the phone app at the end. This “jamming” error was corrected in the latest watch firmware update.
Frequently (in running only) I get real time ZS but after the workout no trace of it is synced with the phone app - it’s just vanished.

I have said about a dozen times there is a graphics problem on the watch which nobody can explain. It’s the HR data not the ZS data. It’s cast iron proof there’s a firmware issue.

[Ian Beveridge]

@isazi That’s not what’s happening! When I observe the watch every 200 metres in real time it gives the same data (here averaging 180 bpm) as is later seen in the phone app. However after the run there is a wrong graph showing in the watch logbook.

[2b2bff]

@Ian-Beveridge ZoneSense data isn’t transferred from the watch to the app. There is some calculation done on the watch, that you can see on the watch, and different calculations are done in the app, that is presented to you within the app.

[isazi]

@Ian-Beveridge and this is always with the same sensor?

[Ian Beveridge]

@2b2bff That might be the case but when I upload a run to Runalyze it shows no trace of HRV data when the ZS is deactivated on the watch. I’m always using a paired chest strap so it’s not the optical HR. To get a look at the HRV data on Runalyze I had to dig out a cycling workout where the ZS data was successfully logged.

[Ian Beveridge]

@isazi Yes the same sensor - which gives correct real time feedback and ZS in real time and occasionally successfully stored and always an accurate phone app graph.
I never even paid attention to the watch Logbook graph before but was gobsmacked to see it is displaying junk.

[2b2bff]

@Ian-Beveridge this is of one of my activities, definitely recorded without the ZoneSense App. HRV on the left…

[isazi]

@Ian-Beveridge maybe you mentioned it before, but what sensor are you using? Is the logbook corrupt just for one activity, or more?

[Ian Beveridge]

@isazi It’s an H10+ Polar - only a couple of months old. It’s been extremely stable. The Logbook graphics seems corrupted for many workouts - I’ve not gone back through them all though - too many.

[Ian Beveridge]

@2b2bff It could be just because Runalyze is new to me (as of yesterday). If so I’ll get back to you and let you know.

[MKPotts]

@Ian-Beveridge
I’ve already explained that turning the ZoneSense app on or off in the watch has absolutely no effect on:
i) the data the H10 sends to the watch (which includes r-r data)
ii) the data the watch receives from the H10 and records in the fit file
iii) the calculation of ZoneSense data in the app

If there is no r-r data in the fit file, then either:

1. the source of the data displayed on the watch and recorded in the file is not the H10.
2. you have found a problem with your watch where - at random, because you’ve had r-r data before - it doesn’t record the r-r data it receives.

[Ian Beveridge]

@MKPotts @2b2bff
Yes I was just having trouble finding the right display with Runalyze - there is HRV data there even with the ZS deactivated. Unfortunately it goes wild after 10 minutes into the run - doesn’t affect the HR readings at all but certainly something going wrong with HRV. I’ll upload a few more workouts and see what they are doing.

[Ian Beveridge]

@Ian-Beveridge I uploaded a cycling workout where ZS was recorded - the only problem during the ride was the ZS counter freezing with real time display - but both ZS thresholds were measured. There is no logbook graph for this - seems it’s shown only for the most recent workouts.

Obviously the cycling is much smoother than when running with a high cadence so what I can do is try different ways of securing the chest strap - and check the results out with Runalyze.

Running slower gets me a full result with ZS - so it’s not the chest strap that’s faulty - it’s perhaps just not secure enough for when things get a bit bouncy. Even if I can’t get it perfect for HRV the HR readings from the H10+ are great and I can live with that.

[Brad_Olwin]

@Ian-Beveridge I ran with my Race S today and a Suunto SmartSensor. No issues with HR or ZoneSense with firmware 2.47.12 on the watch. My zones were not set right as I have not used this watch in some time.

[brave_dave]

@Brad_Olwin may I ask if ZoneSense gave you detected values for both thresholds on that run and what the values are?

[MKPotts]

@Ian-Beveridge
The r-r plots you’ve shared for a cycle and a run both clearly show a problem with your belt. The run is much worse - it appears to have large gaps where the belt hasn’t detected the electrical signal at all - but even the cycling one has too many anomalies for a well-functioning belt.
The r-r data doesn’t just affect ZoneSense, it means the HR values displayed will often not be reliable. The live HR value on the watch will often display unrealistically high or low values or freeze. It is causing the differences you see between live display, watch logbook and app. The filters used by Suunto app and others will try to extract a reasonable HR plot but will still struggle when data quality is very poor.

Adjusting belt tightness might help but probably not much - at least other than temporarily - unless you’ve currently got the belt very loose (which I doubt).
If you haven’t already I recommend machine-washing the H10 belt and that might recover it. This helped for a while when my H10 did the same.

[isazi]

@MKPotts I would also suggest to @Ian-Beveridge to clean the contact points of the strap with some alcohol to remove maybe fat buildup on the strap.

[Brad_Olwin]

@brave_dave You can but I forgot to set my zones in the watch so they were wrong!
These are what I got yesterday (you can see HR zones are wrong). The image below yesterday is from Tuesday interval run where the zones were set correctly (my max HR is 180 and LT mid 160s). I guess another point for this is that I use ZS more for real time information and less for setting zones. In fact, I don’t use HR zones much at all these days. I use ZS for long runs and intervals >10 min, Power for intervals <10 min.

[Ian Beveridge]

@isazi @brave_dave @Brad_Olwin
I might as well just buy a Suunto HR belt if it’s going to spare a lot of grief.

Today I tried experimenting and something weird happened. I decided to try the H10+ up high on my chest almost under the armpits with the strap across the upper pectorals. I felt on good form (working on high intensity) and quickly noticed the displayed heart rate wasn’t climbing (due to being warmed up my hr is immediately straight up to 188 to 193 ) but my watch was displaying between 80 and 90 and steadily going lower. after 5 minutes I paused to reposition the strap (autopause active) but that messed up even more - the HR value constantly plummeting.

When I uploaded the data to the phone app it turns out the logged data for the first 5 minutes was logging correct data - around 188 to 193 bpm - and it was only screwed up from after I repositioned the strap.

I loaded onto Runalyze and the anomalies were bad everywhere so I know that placement of the strap is not helping.

Is there any explanation however why the first 5 minutes (before the pause) displayed an incorrect HR real time value but logged a correct value? I’m assuming it’s linked somehow to the other HRV issues (ZoneSense was still deactivated).

[Brad_Olwin]

@Ian-Beveridge This may be H10-specific, I do not have one so others can comment on that. However, I do have a Garmin HRM-Pro (I am traveling so it is not with me now) that I have worn to test ZS. I have had no issues and the HRM-Pro supports two R-R streams at the same time to two different watches (I did test this) and the ZS on both watches was very similar. I can try to look up the data if you like.