S9 v. 2.4.14 GPS performance and practical questions it raises

I have somewhat mixed feelings about the GPS improvements in the latest 2.4.14 firmware upgrade. I think the previous version (2.1.64) fared better. Here’s a case in point – a section of my 20-miler last Sunday, all of it in the wide open space, without tall buildings or trees. On the left is the track captured by Suunto 9 with best GPS quality, and on the right the track from a lowly Polar M430:

Notice how S9 track wanders around and has me running off the track and in the bushes. The practical consequence of this was 0.6 miles difference between the two watches at the end of my run.

Am I the only one seeing the tracks like this? And if you are seeing similar GPS performance too, how do you deal with it on longer distances where the error starts to accumulate like compound interest? Last but not least, Polar and Garmin allow you to set your pace/distance from a foot pod, but Suunto relies on FusedSpeed. To what extent footpod provided pace figures in that?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

There is no track GPS FW change since the prev fw if that helps.

However I have seen cases on the S9 that suddenly for more than 1 move it becomes unstable. I have reported all those to the devs and Sony is looking into it.

The response I got was to reset the FW.

Well that sucks…

However if you are a bit nerdy you can preform a reset via drag and drop the same FW (it exists in the Suunto link data folder and it’s something like ibizaXXX.2.4.16.zip).

That should avoid reseting things like zones and will wipe caches (reboot doesnt) .

I do GPS testing every day for Suunto and I got stuck at 3/3 bad tracks for the first time on the S9 some weeks ago. The above helped and I would suggest todo that if the track you are having becomes more than 2 times bad. (as seen in the pic)

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Thank you. Will be doing two more runs this week on that field. If things go same way, will definitely try a reset. Let me dig around Suuntolink, see where the firmware goodies are kept.

Here’s an interesting observation: for the first 2-3 miles, at least, both watches were fairly close. Mile lap buzzed up within 10-15 m of each other. Then things started diverging.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@NickK Just remember. Each watch can have it’s bad day.

I run with 3S9 (no joke) and other Spartans (in total about 5 watches) and not all perform good. Somedays one wins and somedays another.

Frédéric Fiandino

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos 5 watches … wrists and ankles! Suunto is mistreating you!

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@Frédéric-Fiandino @Brad_Olwin should describe the collection hehe. Small Suunto museum almost.

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Yes, I know. I’m certainly not judging by that single run. I did three with this watch thus far outside. One was pretty good, one was fair, and this was the third. So, the jury is definitely out as to whether even a reset is warranted.

Do you know if FusedSpeed with us to stay as the only option or Suunto might consider driving pace/distance by GPS or footpod too, i.e. have a selection between Fused, GPS, or footpod? That would be awesome!

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@NickK I think Suunto when GPS is low biases more to watch + accelerometes = Fused speed.

I am not 100% sure how this works with pods and autocalibration but I think it gets more complex there.

However, when the pod is on autocalibration off, it only listens to the pod for distance and speed making the GPS a thing only for tracking not for speed etc.

Of course this has not much to do with GPS running performance, but with performance in general:

That DC guy again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W829SSge2Do

GPS performance was not so bad, until it suddenly stopped at all (8.22min).

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@paradize we saw that and I almost cried due to the BUG that is on Sony’s side AFAIK. (if you notice also Vantage has it)

I tested the S9 on a daily basis of 30+ days 2KM swimming per day (sometimes more) and I had great and the best tracks ever from any watch.

Its a pitty this happened to Ray to be honest.

FYI feel free to see my tracks they are with 2.4.14 (and 2.4.12) (same GPS FW)

Movescount: http://www.movescount.com/members/member1041771-JimmyKane (check August)
Strava : http://strava.com/athletes/dimitrioskanellopoulos (again Aug-Sept)

suzzlo

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in S9 v. 2.4.14 GPS performance and practical questions it raises:

I run with 3S9 (no joke) and other Spartans (in total about 5 watches) and not all perform good

Do you ever add a Polar or a Garmin to comparisons?

(I can imagine you charging all of them at home, there are not enough plugs in the world )

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@suzzlo yes a a lot of times. Coming from M400 - V800 (before SSU) and F5/F5+

Another pal of mine is also testing 935FR.

Suunto in testing has from all brands watches. They don’t go blind.

I test in hard conditions, mostly, and less on road lately (did a lot in NL).

I do mountain
Trail (run/hike)
Alpine (run/hike)
Swimming (indoors/outdoors)

I don’t hide my tests. I have a main device, my S9, that I love and the rest sit most day on a desk on a wooden branch like here (the devices I have lately and will be keeping):

Watches.jpeg

Regarding the main device:

Is on production FW
Is on the non GPS optimal hand (right)
Is always the first watch to the wrist.
The main device is the activities you see everywhere
You can check pics that I attach, some are speficially to show the conditions.

Luís Pinto

@NickK You can get pace and distance from Stryd or Milestone for Suunto.

@paradize Yes, I’ve seen it. But the takeaway from that video was that all watches but Apple Watch Series 4 weren’t good at open water swimming me thinks, at least for DCR. His Girl fared way better. Though as DCR pointed out, it has less to do with GPS performance per se, and more with algorithms. Or Sony chipset bugs as indeed, both Suunto 9 and Vantage V displayed surprisingly similar behavior for two distinct platforms…

Now, I love Apple Watch and kudos for getting things so tight, but my Suunto 9 easily lasts 4-5 days on a single charge with hours of GPS training and OHR and produces data I can export anywhere. Not to mention it looks solid like a rock and can probably survive a nuclear war. Oh, and it has buttons that are easy to press even when wearing gloves

I’m not sure Apple Watch would ever become a serious training tool. Not because Apple can’t, but because Apple doesn’t want to. That’s not their core competence.

@Luís-Pinto I know. Except there’s nowhere in the settings (like with Polar or Garmin) to use footpod for pace/distance as opposed to FusedSpeed or GPS.

My understanding is that FusedSpeed would use a footpod data if it is connected, but it will be one of the inputs. Not the sole input. I think the only way to force Stryd to be a sole provider is to turn off GPS, which kind of defies the purpose.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

My understanding is that FusedSpeed would use a footpod data if it is connected, but it will be one of the inputs. Not the sole input. I think the only way to force Stryd to be a sole provider is to turn off GPS, which kind of defies the purpose.

@NickK No that is not true

If you turn off autocalibration then the Speed/Distance will come from Stryd only and GPS will only be used to carve the track.

Luís Pinto

@NickK I see your point. We have never really been clarified by Suunto if the Fusespeed works with the footpod or is deactivated from the moment the footpod is connected to the watch.

Luís Pinto

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Thats my notion too. I always put stryd with autocalib off. Because with autocalib on, the gps enter in action for pace and distance and in consequence Fusedspeed.

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in S9 v. 2.4.14 GPS performance and practical questions it raises:

I have a main device, my S9, that I love

There! Can I second this opinion?

and the rest sit most day on a desk on a wooden branch like here

Man, and I was thinking something was wrong with me and was going to sell my collection. Now let me proudly grab a similar wooden branch my wife will probably kill me with, once she realizes just how many Suunto, Polar, and Garmin units have been conveniently stuffed in various drawers.

Regarding the main device:

Is on the non GPS optimal hand (right)

Can you elaborate on that? Why it’s not GPS optimal? Because right is dominant? (I happen to wear my Suunto 9 on the right hand too but mostly because I’m ambidextrous and tend to prefer right for watches)

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@NickK said in S9 v. 2.4.14 GPS performance and practical questions it raises:

Can you elaborate on that? Why it’s not GPS optimal? Because right is dominant? (I happen to wear my Suunto 9 on the right hand too but mostly because I’m ambidextrous and tend to prefer right for watches)

Exactly the same reason I wear it on right. My problem is also that my right-hand does have a black tattoo and I get the tatoogate thingy and even Vantage cannot get the OHR. They just don’t report any values.

Back to the question about why I can list a few reasons such indeed the dominant hand that moves a lot more but most importantly it’s the side of your body that you tend to have cover at roads and trails.

As used in our society we walk to the right side of the payment for example. In this case, our hand is covered more bu obstacles such as building etc. Same happens when on the trail and you have the trees on one side.

Of course, you could change the way you walk or run and then it wont be at the “bad” arm but then again, now you know why I call the right “bad”.