Future of the Spartan Line
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@sartoric No problem!
I was just replying to the question about the features lost as a result of the transition. -
I would gladly buy a new Suunto, as long as the hardware had the features I’ve missed since the Ambit 2 owned - real swim tracking. Suunto - and these forums - continue to ignore all requests for updates on whether they will return manual lap add for swimming (kick/drill function). All indications from the development of the 7 watch (smartwatch features) is that they are just sticking with people who only swim freestyle. Tracking the other strokes is great, but the inability to manually add laps means that they fundamentally do not understand or care about real swim sets - kicking and drills (where you don’t move one of your arms for an entire lap or multiple laps) are fundamental to real swim training.
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@sartoric @freenico
I wanted to add here, that @freenico has complained about several issues here with his spartan, and he waits for updates. be we don’t know at all the details of the issues. asking for updates is one thing. but I know people happily using their spartans without an urgent need for an update… why the difference? If @freenico could explain the issues, maybe he could get support here, if the topic isn’t discussed to the ground already
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@freeheeler said in Future of the Spartan Line:
@sartoric @freenico
I wanted to add here, that @freenico has complained about several issues here with his spartan, and he waits for updates. be we don’t know at all the details of the issues. asking for updates is one thing. but I know people happily using their spartans without an urgent need for an update… why the difference? If @freenico could explain the issues, maybe he could get support here, if the topic isn’t discussed to the ground alreadyI will happily give my reasons for hoping for spartan software updates:
- the gps tracking, especially during swimming, is worse than the 1st model apple watch (i actually tested and compared them)
- altitude sensor is really poor
- perhaps they could add a few watch-face (maybe not important at athletic levell but it would still be nice to have the option)
- there is the option to customize existing sport modes but a new sport cannot be added (for example, i took part in a duathlon/swim-run race and i had to use the multisport option to somehow records the laps). It would have been useful if i could add a new sport
- reading form the official specs page the suunto spartan ultra does not have a temperature sensor however, when uploading the activity on suunto app it shows the temperature (both air and water temp.); it would be nice if the temp could be shown on the watch also (especially during trail running on high peaks)
- often the gps takes several minutes to grab the signal and occasionally i have to soft-reset the watch to get it started.
Perhaps, i could think of a few more; isn’t software updates adding&improving the whistles&bells of something good to make it great?
P.s.: for instance, i am having a drink sitting at a bar by the sea, in the Med sea (literally sea-level), and my spartan gives -49m altitude
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@freenico
S9B is still frequently receiving updates and gives relatively bad tracks when swimming. Water is very difficult for GPS signals and the issue might be in the hardware, too. Hence, no improvement for Spartan and S9 either with updates.
What do you mean by alti sensor is poor?
Are the sensor holes free during your activity?
I don’t know about sport mode customization, it should be possible to add, but the amount is limited.
Regarding the time to get satellites locked, I assume you keep AGPS file updated? I have experienced that it sometimes takes 2 seconds at the start screen, sometimes over 1 minute. If you move while on the start screen it is more difficult for the watch to lock satellites. -
@freeheeler said in Future of the Spartan Line:
@freenico
S9B is still frequently receiving updates and gives relatively bad tracks when swimming. Water is very difficult for GPS signals and the issue might be in the hardware, too. Hence, no improvement for Spartan and S9 either with updates.
What do you mean by alti sensor is poor?
Are the sensor holes free during your activity?
I don’t know about sport mode customization, it should be possible to add, but the amount is limited.
Regarding the time to get satellites locked, I assume you keep AGPS file updated? I have experienced that it sometimes takes 2 seconds at the start screen, sometimes over 1 minute. If you move while on the start screen it is more difficult for the watch to lock satellites.Thank you for your input.
I have a few questions:- I am aware that gps signals are lost with the watch under water but, for instance, garmin and even the first apple watches give a smooth trajectory of your swim activity (and not pointy and sharp, sometime crossing the coast -line or going all the way in-land to the retunr in the middle of the sea, if you swim open-water close to cliffs or rocks)
- what sensor holes? i wasn’t aware of such detail
- i believe it’s not possible to add a new sport mode, i have tried for 3 days; you can only customize existing sport modes
- what is the AGPS file? and how do i update it? (and i don’t move at all before starting a training run in fact, i stay sill until the gps signal is locked)(I remember the day I unpacked the new Spartan, it locked the gps in a fraction of a second and I was sitting inside my apartment)
p.s.: i wasnt complaining about the watch; as i mentioned in the thread that the moderator moved/closed, I have been a Suunto fan for over 2 decades when I first started diving; i was only trying to get tips from an official Suunto forum hoping that (maybe) a suunto team members would/could tip me
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@freenico
this forum is not a direct line to the Suunto team. But you can get help here with questions. I don’t know the Spartan myself, other members can help better here.
What I can say is that surfboard paddle training with my S9B looks like I was floating like a drunk in a rubber beach boat on the lake
I know exactly what you mean with your description. Unfortunately I think there’s nothing that could be improved with firmware.
The sensor holes, I actually don’t even know where they are located on the Spartan… could become dirty and clogged over time. If you are a frequent swimmer it shouldn’t be an issue as it gets cleaned with every swim.
The Assisted GPS file gets loaded with SA or SuuntoLink sync to the watch and helps the watch to find satellites faster. It works without it, too, but takes longer to find satellites.
I have to say that in recent days, I observed satellite issues and even losses during activities. Could be that we face a period with more difficulties in generaledit: there’s a small wakeboard launch pad that I use to paddle there for training. I never go beyond it. But the recording shows a faulty spike way beyond it. I think this is what you are talking about?
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@freeheeler said in Future of the Spartan Line:
@freenico
this forum is not a direct line to the Suunto team. But you can get help here with questions. I don’t know the Spartan myself, other members can help better here.
What I can say is that surfboard paddle training with my S9B looks like I was floating like a drunk in a rubber beach boat on the lake I know exactly what you mean with your description. Unfortunately I think there’s nothing that could be improved with firmware.
The sensor holes, I actually don’t even know where they are located on the Spartan… could become dirty and clogged over time. If you are a frequent swimmer it shouldn’t be an issue as it gets cleaned with every swim.
The Assisted GPS file gets loaded with SA or SuuntoLink sync to the watch and helps the watch to find satellites faster. It works without it, too, but takes longer to find satellites.
I have to say that in recent days, I observed satellite issues and even losses during activities. Could be that we face a period with more difficulties in generaledit: there’s a small wakeboard launch pad that I use to paddle there for training. I never go beyond it. But the recording shows a faulty spike way beyond it. I think this is what you are talking about?
This is my swim this morning
and this is the comparison (threading water next to each other) done in 2021 between me (wearing the €400+ spartan ultra) and my german friend (wearing a less than €200 apple watch)
pace and distance are completely different
I am pretty sure that the gps satellites work the same for all sport watches so, surely it has to do with the software and how it converts the signals (using glonass is slightly less pointy but still sharp corners and straight trajectories)
The Assisyed GPS on my suunto app is updated regularly and the watch is duly kept and rinsed with fresh water after every swim.
Anyway, as i already said earlier, I am not complaining; i am just disappointed because i really love(d) suunto and its app, which in my opinion, is much better and user-friendly than the nemesis, garmin (I refuse to even consider apple watches in the same realm)
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@freenico
satellites do not even work for all Suuntos the same way. Not all, but some different models have a different satellite chip set and also a different location and concept of the antenna. Best example is the external antenna of the ambit series.
In Switzerland GPS+Galileo works best for me, but it will be different for other locations. -
@freeheeler thank you. I realize then, that it is a matter of hardware, I can see now how the size-of–the-company affects the quality of its products.
Once, again thank you and I still opt for Suunto ) -
@freenico Looking at these GPS tracks, it appears like the apple software draws a smooth best-fit curve through the recorded nodes whereas Suunto simply shows the recorded nodes and connects them with straight lines. One isn’t necessarily better than the other, it is just that the smooth line is prettier whereas I actually appreciate seeing the actual nodes (to get an idea of how accurate the recording is).
As for altitude sensor, I’ve used a Spartan but I think it is different (the one with the external GPS sensor, I think it is called “sport” or “trainer” or something) and it doesn’t have an altitude sensor. My Ambit 3 Peak has it, Suunto 9 has it but other than that? I though the other ones just derive the altitude by GPS data and maybe by using acceleration data. But maybe someone else can comfirm.
Edit: This said, some Spartan nodes clearly are off of course, with some of them being outside the water. There was a discussion elsewhere as someone had also a coarse resolution GPS track when swimming and even though mine was a bit coarse, it wasn’t as bad as his. We were both using the (regular) Suunto 5. Chances are it was because of swimming style. I was crawling, he was doing a breast stroke. So that might matter too, swimming style. But if you look up that discussion (which I won’t repeat here) GPS just isn’t good under water so getting a good recording is also a matter of luck. Same goes for GPS in the mountains or in a dense city. Maybe there are ways to tweak things to get better results. That’s what experts are doing with echo (to see tissue inside your body) or sonar (to scan under water). That’s a skill on its own. But maybe it just can’t be done with GPS because you’re not transmitting the signal hence can’t play with frequencies etc. Only advice I’ve seen is, if you want better GPS reception then you need to keep the sensor out of the water. So attach it to a buoy or something.
