Step counter on Vertical

dreamer_

I have found a very interesting thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Suunto/comments/rvjgcn/a_really_expensive_step_counter/

It seems that the step counter of the S3 and S5 is much better than the step counter of the S9P and someone is guessing that the reason can be to save battery.

I think the step counter is only useful when not tracking an activity with GPS enabled so you have an estimated walked distance to add (that can be a lot or something just anecdotal depending of the user or the day you are walking).

Perhaps a good idea is to have the counter disabled while running, and estimate the final steps of the workout with the GPS distance (so we can save battery on workouts) and have it enabled with an accurate tracking (if possible) while not GPS distance is tracked and you don’t care about battery at all.

pilleus

@dreamer_

https://forum.suunto.com/post/144035

I compared my Suunto watches and in the linked topic you can see the results.

dreamer_

@pilleus very good thread. Thanks a lot for your tests and your feeedback with this. Those numbers are similar at what is said in the thread I was talking about with people speaking about the (S3 and S5) vs S9PP

So Suunto has already developed the code that has the best step counter (or at least something that is pretty interesting), but in cheaper models. It would be very interesting if someone could send that feedback to Suunto, so they can have a look at the code and see what’s happening after the S9P. If there’s something that was already developed and now is missing or why this bug now.

They have already something solid to have a look at for a possible fix for the issue.

My SV counts always more than 10k steps at the end of the day, even if I’m not doing anything special. At least that more than 3 times of what it should be.

EzioAuditore

@dreamer_ Not sure how is it connected but I own both the Vertical and the Race. The SV overcounts (bare movements of the hand) and the Race undercounts (but I much prefer this given the fact that moving around your room or just stretching your back is not really ‘moving’)

dreamer_

@EzioAuditore Perhaps the Race has the right algorythm? It would be very interesting is someone could check the step count of the Race vs S3/5 or SV/S9PP so we can see where’s the issue.

Just guessing that the SV has the algorythm of the S9PP (which seems very bad) and the Race a similar algorythm as the one of the S3/5.

EzioAuditore

@dreamer_ It has been mentioned in this forum that SV was using Firstbeat algorithms and that would change in future to Suunto’s own. My guess is that this was changed with the Race. Now the big question is: since Suunto is paying royalties for Firstbeat, will they change the algos of the SV? So I do not know if and when (or did it already) the SV changes the Fb for own algos.

dreamer_

@EzioAuditore I didn’t know that. Very interesting. So we know then there’s an issue with the algorythms of the SV and S9PP and they are using the bad algorythms just to avoid those royalties, right?

sartoric

@dreamer_ said in Step counter on Vertical:

SV and S9PP and they are using the bad algorythms just to avoid those royalties, right?

No
SV and S9 should afair still using FB

Edit
Very probably step counter was always Suunto’s own algo as FB doesn’t seem to provide that metric

https://www.firstbeatanalytics.com/en/features/

EzioAuditore

@dreamer_ I wouldn’t classify bad and good. It is something that is delivered to Suunto as a black box to use. Now this black box (Firstbeat) was purchased by Garmin and on its devices it seems to function better. But who knows if the ‘boxes’ delivered to Suunto have the latest features, bug fixes or even full compatibility with the watch sensors. So going to use own developed might be good might be bad. Good because Suunto can easily ‘fix’ and update staff, bad because the user base of Firstbeat and their algos is much bigger (irrelevant now since it is controlled by Garmin, same as ANT+. This is what conglomerates do, buy companies that are used by many and enjoy the benefits afterwards

dreamer_

@sartoric I see. Sometimes my “engrish” is not very good . In any case it’s just a matter of using the same algorythms as the ones used in the Race if possible. And that means, the solution and the fix should be already developed.

dreamer_

@EzioAuditore Thanks for the explanation. I didn’t know that either. The Suunto Race uses Suunto’s algorythms, right?
I understand the hadware is different but if Suunto has already developed the “good” logic for the Race, that’s pretty interesting.

EzioAuditore

@dreamer_ I believe that yes, the Race is using Suunto’s own implementation of fitness data (steps, sleep, etc.). For example I am not getting only different steps and calories but also sleep (the only similar thing is the HRV which I guess is directly influenced by the OHR). Plus the Race gives you REM stages of your sleep. I would love to see this ported to the SV as well but somewhere it was mentioned that it too needs enabling/paying (OHR or no I am not sure). Although, I do not really need the watch to tell me if I slept good or bad I was ‘observing’ myself and found that the more REM sleep I have the better at performing tasks at work I am and the more deep sleep the better at performing sports (this of course is my own observation not scientifically proven - maybe there is scientifically one but I do not have the time to invest and research it)

sartoric

@dreamer_
Some notes about Race’s algos

https://forum.suunto.com/post/131343

isazi

@dreamer_ a little background story you can also find in the forum if you look around. At some point the S3 algorithm, the one that is much less sensitive to movement, was used, and many users complained that it did not give them enough steps and they definitely walked more, and Suunto decided to use the more sensitive algorithm on the S9 series

dreamer_

@sartoric Dimitrios’ post is very claryfying
And this:
“Bottomline, things will get aligned , but needs time.” , totally consistent.

@isazi I don’t know about the algorythm used in the S3 but have a look at what @pilleus posted here: https://forum.suunto.com/post/144035

Those seem pretty interesting tests and what is for sure is that the algorythm that is now used in the SV and the S9P is horrible, the worst Suunto has used yet (as my understanding)

isazi

@dreamer_ @pilleus was using the S3

dreamer_

@isazi yes sorry. I was also thinking in the Race since we were quoting Dimitrios’ post.

But even the algorythm used in the S3 (we don’t know if it’s the one used in the Race) seems a lot more accurate of what we actually have in the SV. In fact It does pretty good compared with what the SV does. The SV counts steps all time (at this moment).

What it seems pretty consistent is that last Dimitrios’ post (and totally understandable in fact)

isazi

@dreamer_ said in Step counter on Vertical:

But even the algorythm used in the S3 (we don’t know if it’s the one used in the Race) seems a lot more accurate of what we actually have in the SV.

Yes, the algorithm of the S3 is widely considered the least prone to over counting steps.

Greennorth

@pilleus nice comparisons . My Suunto 3 was also very accurate for step counting. My S9PP counts almost twice as many steps, which was a surprise when I switched watches.

dreamer_

@pilleus it would be very interesting if you could recheck the step counter with similar tests you made before.

For me it seems that is not working after the fix. I still need to check at the end of the day but I woke up at 6:10AM and at 7:45AM the watch says that I have more than 1400 steps, which is totally impossible.