Maximum activity duration (storage space)

freeheeler

@Likarnik
I am aware for this topic for races. But when I go on a skitour for multiple days and it is not a race, personally I don’t see a reason why multiple days should be one activity… maybe what @DMytro says
I know people who record the commute there and back in one activity… but in between there is 10h of being at work again: philosophy question

isazi

@freeheeler I am with you here. If I wanted to do a race of this kind, I would like to have a single activity. But my usual multi-day activity is climbing/hiking/mountaineering and I consider it a collection of daily activities, because I eat and sleep in between

Likarnik

@isazi @freeheeler I agree with you on multi day trips, but as far as I understand, @MKPotts is talking about races

@freeheeler philosophy question? Maybe we should include ski touring/backcountry skiing/skimo in here

isazi

@Likarnik yes, and for that unfortunately we cannot go more than ~70 hours apparently. Future watches may be different in this regard.

freeheeler

@Likarnik
you’re right @MKPotts asked for that, but I was more focusing on the request from @thanasis , since the request from @MKPotts is not solved, but at least answered

… skitouring… well, priority number one is: we desperately need snow, everything else is priority number 2 or 3
I use skitouring for telemark skitours and snowboard tours (no splitboard) and I’m fine with that. The activity basically is the same: sweating heavily uphills and grinning from one ear to the other on the downhill

DMytro

@isazi should we start an s9ppp thread already? XD

MKPotts

@Likarnik said in Maximum activity duration (storage space):

@isazi @freeheeler I agree with you on multi day trips, but as far as I understand, @MKPotts is talking about races

Yes, I was talking only about races. If doing a multiday trip (e.g. backpacking, I can’t ski!), I’d want it as separate activities. So agree with all the comments.
Also agree there are workarounds for long races - saving, syncing, merging later etc - but they have downsides (especially when you’re sleep-deprived!).
I know very little about the design limitations and trade-offs with watches, file management etc, so would be interested to know why activity storage is still even a consideration on modern devices. Is the fit file size in SA indicative of storage needed on the device? If so, then looking at file sizes for some of my 12-24hr races, suggests a 120hr activity would only be about 10MB. Is that more challenging than it sounds?

isazi

@MKPotts it is challenging only in the way that current Suunto watches have very little storage available, so nothing can be done with current models I’m afraid.

Brad_Olwin

@MKPotts I used an Epix 2 for 8 months and had similar experiences but nothing as long as you have done. I sold my Epix 2.

Brad_Olwin

@MKPotts So a couple questions. I have had the same problems in the past. I ran Fat Dog in Canada (200k) when Ambit 3 Peak was the current watch and wanted data in 1s mode. It took 40h to finish. I split my run into 2 events. My main repository for data is TrainingPeaks so combining the files in TP worked fine. I just left these as two files in MC, now SA.

Do you use SA as your primary analysis tool?
If not I agree with @herlas on this and we should be able to import large fit files.

I am going to raise this with Suunto as I am considering doing a 320k or longer next year. Personally, the watch should not be limited, I could accept reduced HR sampling or no HR for a 120 race to record as one file. Current watches should handle that. I suspect it boils down to costs……

DMytro

@Brad_Olwin I also wonder if such things affect battery life, since during the prolonged recording the file is ‘open i.e. constantly being fed the data’, so I suppose keeping larger files ‘active’ puts more strain on memory and processing power thus also affecting the battery.
This is just my guess as sb who never had a CS class and also I can’t guess how the energy consumption scales with increasing activity duration (hard to imagine the effect being exponential tho).

MKPotts

@Brad_Olwin
When I’m doing more structured training I use TP (premium) as my primary tool for planning and analysis. At other times I’ll mainly use SA. I didn’t know I could combine fit files within TP, that’s helpful to know, thank you. I also send data to Strava but only for connecting with friends, I don’t find their analysis tools any use.
With splitting races into multiple files, the main reason I want to avoid it is because it’s something else to do/forget/mess up at checkpoints, when there’s already so many things to try to do efficiently (especially in winter).
I had/have an A3P but never went longer than 13hrs with it, so didn’t run into memory issues. But I know you could change the recording interval. Maybe reintroducing the option to do that in the S9 watches - e.g. still acquiring data every second for navigation but only writing to the file every 5sec - would be a way to extend run time without hardware changes.
Regardless, the S9 watches are still the best fit for my needs/priorities, so I’ll stick with them unless/until a better option comes along.

Brad_Olwin

@MKPotts You cannot combine within TP but after combining no data is lost upon TP import.

MKPotts

Hi,
I bought a S9PP and used it for my race, so I thought it may be helpful to others to share what I found out about watch storage space.
I’m assuming the logbook in the S9PP functions in the same way as the S9P/S9B - i.e. if the graphs are still present for altitude etc, the full activity data is still stored, otherwise it has been overwritten with just a summary remaining.
For the race I used the S9PP in a custom running profile, in endurance mode, HR off, no external sensors connected and auto laps every 10km. I split the race roughly two-thirds/one-third - 58:25 & 31:57 - so a total time of 90hrs 22mins. Both activities are still stored in the watch (altitude graph and intensity chart still showing), so I could have kept the watch running rather than split the activity. This included about 6hrs with the watch paused - i.e. total watch “on” time was about 96hrs - I know it keeps connecting to GPS when paused but I’m not sure if it writes anything to the data file.
The watch also still has 4hrs 11mins of previous activity stored - all running, in performance mode with an external HR sensor connected (Polar Verity Sense). I guess this would equate to 5-10hrs without HR data.
Overall, my experience indicates the S9PP can store about 95-100hrs of data in endurance mode, without HR or external sensors, when used for running.
Hope this helps anyone else looking to use the watch for multi-day events.

isazi

@MKPotts thanks for sharing your experience! How was the race?

Brad_Olwin

@isazi said in Maximum activity duration (storage space):

@MKPotts thanks for sharing your experience! How was the race?

Thanks for the information and as @isazi said, how was the race?

matthinsh

Super feedback on how the 9PP handled the race. Fantastic result @MKPotts 5th male overall! Absolutely over that distance. https://live.opentracking.co.uk/spinerace23/

Did you use it for navigation also?

MKPotts

The race was really, really good. It’s the third time I’ve done it - twice in winter, once in summer - so I knew what to expect.
The weather was good this year after the first few hours - cold (by UK standards) with lows down to about -6°C with snow and ice at all levels - but relatively light winds and clear skies. As always, managing sleep deprivation was probably the hardest thing - I only slept for 3.5hrs in a total time of 101hrs - and had to sleep for 20mins in the snow on the last night when I kept falling asleep on my feet. Unfortunately I had a tendon problem from about halfway which meant I had to walk a lot of the second half, but I managed not to slip too far back in the field.
Irunfar.com have posted a summary of the races (I’m the one shown crossing the finish line with my children). For anyone interested the race also publish excellent daily video summaries, on their Facebook page and YouTube channel.

MKPotts

@matthinsh said in Maximum activity duration (storage space):

Super feedback on how the 9PP handled the race. Fantastic result @MKPotts 5th male overall! Absolutely over that distance. https://live.opentracking.co.uk/spinerace23/

Did you use it for navigation also?

Yes, I used it to navigate throughout the race and it was generally excellent. I also added key waypoints into the race gpx files - really easy to do with SA - and used ETE/distance to fields in the watch, which was very helpful for making decisions about whether to push on, sleep etc.
The only problem I had was on the last overnight stretch when the watch was struggling to orientate the navigation track and often doing so with a 180° error. I’m not sure if this was a compass calibration error - because I couldn’t find a way to manually calibrate it during an activity - so I had to switch to my handheld gps (mandatory to carry one).
I’ll test it a few times (once I’ve recovered) to see if the behaviour repeats itself. I also need to test the barometer because altitude readings were wrong throughout the race - consistently about 10% to high for the first recording and 10% too low for the second - but I wasn’t using altitude for navigation so it didn’t cause a problem in the race.

MKPotts

Also to add, I had my S9P on my other wrist, recording in Endurance mode. FusedTrack produced a very impressive track, considering it was only getting a satellite fix every 60sec. Total distance was also close, showing 422km vs 435km with the S9PP in 1sec mode.
I can post links to the activities for comparison if anyone would find this useful.