ANGEL MODE... When your watch detect you are lost and are out of route

Mister PYC

It was my original thinking at the beginning. but it is a false good idee …

Why ?

Multiple reasons here

it force Suunto for a more complex computation they have to do a geometrical mathematical computation to identify this point (Ok it is “just” mathematics but such computation has to be done regularly to reactualize this point
depending on where you are, it will give you each time a different point on your route, so a point that you have no idea where it is on a paper map … you cannot position this “computed” point on a paper map … so your paper map is of no use.

In reverse looking to BEG and END points systematically solve all the above situations : much easier to compute (no copmputation in fact they are in the GPX), fix point so you can see them on the map and jsut drawing the angles (also distance if you are aligned between where you are and the BEG and END) allow you to precisely put where you are on the paper map

Last but not least, such mode is not to give you directions to go, but indicattion on the map, why … because between you and the point you may have not idea about the danger that exist, the same by the way with your computed nearest point.

So I came back from this and I much more prefer the BEG and END
Suunto ca do this super easily and we might have it in a next coming upgrade.

Please tell me what you think about my approach

Mff73

@mister-pyc said in ANGEL MODE... When your watch detect you are lost and are out of route:
nearest point.

So I came back from this and I much more prefer the BEG and END
Suunto ca do this super easily and we might have it in a next coming upgrade.

Please tell me what you think about my approach

All this for that conclusion 🤪?
Back from beginning is already implemented, and if you prepare your route well enough, you can have saved end of route POI and you are OK.

Tomas5

@mister-pyc i don’t think there are some complex calculations. You can navigate back to point where you got off route. But i think this is already posible using navigate back function in breadcrumbs screen. If you need navigate to begining or end of the route, if you are lost than direct navigation to begining or end can bring you to hard terrain, clifs etc. I think much safer is navigate back trough already known terrain. But you can save POI if you need this kind of navigation.

I would like to see first improvement of some already implemented feature before, than bringing new ones since this request is already possible to achieve with POI.

For example sleep tracking had problems to recognize correct wake up time. It rather recognize get up from bed only.

Recently removed toggle mode for backlight.

Missing possibility to use multiple graphs in custom sports mode. Old ambit allowed multiple graph screens per sports mode.

Multiple bike pods paired (people with two bikes can use only bikepod on one bike or pair pod every time)

And there is more to fix or improve.

Please don’t take this personally, just my opinion.

Mister PYC

@mff73 said in ANGEL MODE... When your watch detect you are lost and are out of route:

inning is already implemented,

The problem is elsewhere … today if you see my example, the watch acted as if she was a kid or my wife sulking because I was just more than 100 m far from the route all along.

Your rq is correct, I could have also stored the BEG and END or my route as POI (remember the BEG also because in my example I was not precisely at the BEG I was thinking). this is

useless as already the GPX have them – open a GPX in a notepad you will see –
hence consuming memory slot for nothing 3
having stored them, count the number of manipulation it will requires you to locate yourself with these 2 points and not this angel mode. you will have to ask the navigation to BEG, go to compass, then ask navigation to END, go to compass, then ask again the navigation to your route … here you will have he 2 angles and distance straight immediately by a simple central click

Mister PYC

@tomas5

Hello Tomas,

Do not worry, in this forum for the first time, I saw only gentlemen discussing and sometimes challenging each others but never mock wickely the others … very different from social networks

I’m an IT engineer.

If I was having access to the SUUNTO code, developing this ANGEL mode will have been a matter of 1 or 2 days max. the watch is on a route, so I can find easily in its GPX file its first waypoint and last waypoint, the COMPASS is already developed, so I just have to instantiate it 2 times on a click on central button (one time for BEG, one for END), the computation of distance, ETE, ETA is already here on BEARING navigation, I reuse it on these 2 points and put results in the fields of POI and end of itinery is the guy was displaying them in one of his screen – otherwise he will just have he azimut from the compass) … it remain the display of the angel icon …
That’s it.
So this will not damage the development effort

Concerning your list of features … I have also plenty of others which I feel important that differs from yours :

Revisit the screens to allow better lisibility for visualy impaired people
Faster access to the compass and have the possibility to add it as a screen of exercise mode (even if there is no navigation currently)
Possibility to change sort order of menus (for example move up altimeter)
This beautiful SUUNTO plus weather screen (or a new screen on weather forecast) available in watch and exercice modes.
Better display when pressing on center button (not only the date, time battery) but for example ALTIMETER, COMPASS, WEATHER, ALARM

So here it is depending a lot on the way we do sports. I personnaly do not care of teh watch to indicate me my sleeping, stress, or to pods. I’m just a mountainers, not a runner.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@mister-pyc said in ANGEL MODE... When your watch detect you are lost and are out of route:

If I was having access to the SUUNTO code, developing this ANGEL mode will have been a matter of 1 or 2 days max.

Maybe 1 month

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in ANGEL MODE... When your watch detect you are lost and are out of route:

@mister-pyc said in ANGEL MODE... When your watch detect you are lost and are out of route:

If I was having access to the SUUNTO code, developing this ANGEL mode will have been a matter of 1 or 2 days max.

Maybe 1 month

Plus the testing on all conditions on various devices no?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@andré-faria that is afterwards. About 2-3 weeks.

Mister PYC

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos

Hope you are you kidding ??? … we are no more in waterfall model but now in Agile … so is it not a matter of 1 sprint ?
I’m pushing you a little bit … but for a POC 1 or 2 days should suffise, after … for a LIVE mode … you are right there are some more tests to perform and may be some fine tuning …

But the point is the following :

Suunto dev folks have absolutely all the technical elements :

The compass in which you set a bearing position and it does the job
no test needed here it works already, isnt’it
the GPX loaded
the boolean telling you if YES or NO you are out of route …
the biggest difficulties is to search in the GPX file for the last way point (the first one being trivial) … I hope you agree with me it is still simple … and … there is not yet the COMPASS displayed in the exercise view, so effectivelly to be added.
No over complexity at first glance, no compass with 2 arrows pointing in the same screen BEGIN and END even if I like it
No over complexity to compute the nearest point on the route to go straight, this is a false good idea

some pseudo code most surely too simple I admit

In the code that revisit if out of route or not

        AngelMode = false 
	Switch Navigation mode is	
	{
		= NO 
		{
			Compass 1 Point = null
			Compass 2 Point = null
		}
		= Bearing to a POI 
		{
			Compass 1 Point = this point
			Compass 2 Point = null
		}
		= in a Route 
		{
			if OutOfRoute detected 
			{
				AngelMode = true
				Compass 1 Point = GPX BEGIN point
				Compass 2 Point = GPX END point 
			} 
			else 
			{
				Compass 1 Point = GPX next way point
				Compass 2 Point = GPX END Point 	
			}
		}
	}

.
In the code that manage the click on Central button
.

	Switch next_screen_to_display is 
	{
		= Compass 1 
		{
			DISPLAY_COMPASS_SCREEN
			if compass point 1 <> null 
			{
				show bearing navigation to point 1
				if angel_mode = true 
				{
					show Angel icon
				} 
			}
			else  
			{
				just show the classical compass
			}
		}
		= Compass 2 
		{
			if navigation on route is false
			{
				Move to the screen which is after
				// A second compass is useless if not on a route
			}
			else
			{
				DISPLAY_COMPASS_SCREEN
				show bearing navigation to point 2
				if angel_mode = true
				{
					show Angel icon
				}
			}
		}
		= A screen which has distance/ETE/ETA POI or Itinery
		{
			if angel_mode = false
			{
				classical computation of these info
			}
			if angel_mode = true
			{
				Distance, ETE, ETA of POI = bearing computation formula to compass 1 point
				Distance, ETE, ETA of POI = bearing computation formula to compass 2 point
				show Angel icon
			}
		}
	}

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@mister-pyc well yes 1 sprint (it’s 1month) and yes 2 days poc.

But that as a suunto plus I suppose with some already template.

That said I hope Suunto brings the suunto plus to us developers via apis etc. Then it’s end of story.

Mister PYC

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in ANGEL MODE... When your watch detect you are lost and are out of route:

@mister-pyc well yes 1 sprint (it’s 1month) and yes 2 days poc.

But that as a suunto plus I suppose with some already template.

That said I hope Suunto brings the suunto plus to us developers via apis etc. Then it’s end of story.

Aïe aïe aïe it should be something that comes automatically on detection out of route and not S+ mode decked at beg of a navigation … Otherwise the benefit of this is lost.
I explain … the Beauty of navigation on a route is that your will have the full Gpx trace when you are back at home, no matter having been a good or an improvised one. Hence if you are out of route you should not stop your navigation for starting it again this time with a S+ angel mode … this mode should come naturally and disappear naturally when the watch is back on the route

DMytro

@mister-pyc why not though? Sure, automatic suggestion might be more pleasant. But manual s+ mode allows for better control from users perspective. Then, if it’s used often enough it might be integrated on a deeper level. Seems to be a good enough compromise, no?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@mister-pyc well I meant it in the sense of adding your own widgets / s+ / code etc. With some logic.

In this way all users can build what they want no?

DMytro

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos wow this would be amazing! Could this theoretically be possible? I thought it couldn’t due to risk of having non-optimized apps.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@дима-мельниченко why not possible. It’s all a matter of prioritization.

DMytro

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos let me rephrase:)
I thought it wasn’t probable. But I would definitely dig writing own s+ apps. And with such lively forum, one could come up with really useful stuff.

Tomas5

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos this would be great feature to have. Old ambit has some possibility to write custom apps. This could be great. And i like idea of angel mode implemented as Suunto+ so only when activates it will show up. I know that direct integration would be great for some users (mountainers) but it will bring new not needed complexity to sports modes for others. Now user interface is simple enough and Suunto+ can solve this. Maybe possibility to allow multiple suunto+ screens at once would be great.

DMytro

@tomas5 I mean if implemented automatically outside of s+, it could be managed by adding a toggle in the navigation submenu.
Otherwise I agree.

Mister PYC

@дима-мельниченко

There is 2 points here for not a good idea of a Suunto plus

The problem of the S+ is that is it a choice to be done before you start the exercise and not in the middle when you face a no route situation, it will force you to stop your recording, engage again the same itinery with this time activating the s+ … not practical for a situation that the watch detected by herself (remember the watch is telling you that you are out of route, so can easily switch
the initial idea is that you can stay for a long time out of route and in such situation you watch is sulk like a kid or my wife when you decided not to go where they want and give you zero information anymore …

See my example which started all my thinking of this angel mode here :. https://forum.suunto.com/topic/6751/is-it-a-navigation-bug-distance-ete-eta-remained-empty-despite-i-was-not-far-from-the-itinery/53?_=1626585265073

Believe me … I happened when I was promoting the watch to a friend, precisely on this walk … and all along the watch was not more indicating anything about at minima the END waypoint of the itinery … which I hope you will agree with me, even if she was not able to compute following the forecasted route as we were no more on it, at minima she could have switched automatically to bearing navigation stragith to that point at least to give me indication on it.

Mister PYC

@tomas5

Hello thomas
Please see my just above answer to Дима Мельниченко which explain why I think a S+ mode is not a good idea.

Your remark on integration only to some user who might need this, is a fair remark.

What about if …

it was you who has the possibility when you personalize the exercise screen to add a compass (I dream a little bit and assume Suunto could enhance its compass to put 2 arrows : one for the POI / END itinery or one for BEG and END of itinery in angel mode)
In the compass parameter you can decide to activate of not the Angel mode … if so, the watch will automatically switch to it when out of route and also shift the computation of distance, ETE, ETA from POI / END itinery to BEG and END of itinery.

Doing that, the people it gives 3 possibilities

for those not interrested by having a COMPASS in their exercice, they do not have it
for those interrested by a COMPASS but not ANGEL mode they have it
for ME !!! I’m super happy …

Ps : I’m sure people in 2 will come to 3 soon