Vo2 max

hdemooij

When will Suunto 7 support vo2max?
what is de roadmap for suunto 7? Can we expect improvements like adding sleep monitoring.

Saketo Nemo

@hdemooij
I don’t think suunto 7 will ever support Vo2, but that’s just my thought. You can get it in many other ways if you try to search the forum. One of them, if I’m not mistaken, is to link suunto app to training peaks

As for the sleep monitor, it’s a very popular feature. Contrary to the Vo2 calculation, the sleep monitor is typical of smartwatches, so I really hope Suunto will please us.

Jamie BG

@hdemooij
its feasible as it can be a calculation estimate (how all wrist devices that currently provide that information, calculate it), however not sure how much value it really is based on what you can see in this article about studies that have analysed using wrist devices for these measurements.

Note that in a lot of ways the S7 is giving you an alternative option to this value, and what I think for most of us is probably more valueable - PTE score. Then you also have your Recovery and EPOC measurement. If you really want more than this, you probably have the incorrect watch for your fitness requirements. I understand that this is activity specific rather than overall, but then again - that is more the ethos of this watch smartwatch with good fitness capabilities, rather than fitness watch.

Sleep tracking - 3rd party options available in store, and yes hopefully at some point we do get a native app, incorporating the companion suunto app on the phone.

No roadmap - though currently most focus seems to have been around bug issues and route navigation.

Nigel Taylor 0

@jamie-bg it would be good if the diary screen that shows daily/weekly/monthly/yearly training load in terms of duration could be toggled to show EPOC.

Its quite difficult to understand and use EPOC when its only available to view (as far as I can find) within a specific activity - it would be nice to be able to glance and see you’ve had a period of increased or decreased effort, to advise on tapering etc.

Jamie BG

@nigel-taylor-0 absolutely agree with you and is something I have prevously requested.
currently to get around this limitation I use two things:

Description - I load these details into the description of each activity. Then when I veiw summaries I can then search based on that i.e. PTE3, which show in which year/month I have done a activity with a +3 PTE, and pressing on the summary of the month/year of course brings up the activities (which includes the description - so quick and easy to see that detail alongside similar activities.
I use the comparison view a lot i.e. when viewing activity I will often check rank on this route and rank of similar distance.

As these measurements are very activity specific, it makes much more sense comparing against specific activities as the longer/harder you train, the higher your PTE, EPOC and recovery.
And in some ways it all makes sense, cause if you went hard prior day, and then again next day, if you do again 3rd day in a row your EPOC and PTE will go up, as your HR rate will hit the higher zones a lot quicker. As EPOC and PTE higher, recovery time becomes higher too - again all makes sense - basically telling you to slow down rest.

While not the same as Vo2 max which is more an indicator of fitness - in way this can be do, cause if you recovery, EPOC, PTE are tracking down against similar distance/route (as long as duration is similar) you have to be getting fitter (less effort on same route = fitter)

As stated this watch really isn’t for serious fitness (can be but not designed for it). - its more designed for people like me who want a smart watch, want to get a bit fitter, but not super serious about it.

Brad_Olwin

@jamie-bg said in Vo2 max:

@hdemooij
its feasible as it can be a calculation estimate (how all wrist devices that currently provide that information, calculate it), however not sure how much value it really is based on what you can see in this article about studies that have analysed using wrist devices for these measurements.

Note that in a lot of ways the S7 is giving you an alternative option to this value, and what I think for most of us is probably more valueable - PTE score. Then you also have your Recovery and EPOC measurement. If you really want more than this, you probably have the incorrect watch for your fitness requirements. I understand that this is activity specific rather than overall, but then again - that is more the ethos of this watch smartwatch with good fitness capabilities, rather than fitness watch.

Sorry but it is not this simple and one of my issues with how training is “measured” by the watch. The training intensity will affect PTE and EPOC the most, duration will play a factor but less than intensity. For example, I do a lot of training at high zone 2 HR for many hours, say a 6h to 8h run maybe longer. My PTE is not very high and EPOC isn’t as high as it should be. My recovery time will typically be 120h, which is incorrect for me as well since the next day I will run for another 2 to 3h.

VO2Max for me is always lower on watches than in lab tests

I don’t run on roads.
My interval training is consistent but not sufficient to push the VO2Max
I train mostly longer distances at lower HR zones.
For example: 55k race last March 7h 3 min finish 1000m ascent; PTE a measly 3.6; EPOC 136; Recovery Time 120h. RPE (relative perceived effort) according to many one of the best indicators of effort. Totally trashed, after sitting for 30 min, drinking a coke I could manage to get up and eat some food.

The metrics on the watch are not an end or a means, take the information with a dose of skepticism. Frankly, there are other ways to measure VO2 Max as well, a Cooper Test.

eurohiker

@brad_olwin to be honest. We should know these watches aren’t 100% accurate when it comes to heart rate and etc.
VO2 Max is a simple calculation that should just be included in a 400euro watch without people having to do the calculation themselves. To me this is just laziness for an expensive piece of tech.
Native sleep tracking is another assumed feature for a 400euro watch to have. SpO2 is another one to add to the list.

Maybe to save themselves, they should just have an exclaimer the first time you look at the VO2 Max on the watch saying “this is not 100% accurate, here is a link to suunto wearables that are more accurate.”

I have no sympathy for tech companies being lazy like this. This is making it harder for people not to buy chinese tech which usually has all these things included for half the price.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@eurohiker vo2max from Firstbeat is all about licensing etc.

Also its a blackbox and provided that the HR is ok it will wipe out errors.

eurohiker

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in Vo2 max:

Firstbeat

Didn’t actually know that!

The other watches that have VO2 max, like TicWatch 3 pro, do not mention anything about firstbeat licensing which is why I didn’t know about it i guess.
Will Suunto 7 be getting this to stay competitive?

I saw you post something along the same lines requesting “estimated” to get around needing the licensing maybe?
link text

Brad_Olwin

@eurohiker Why do you assume companies are lazy? Perhaps asking the question without a negative opinion would be more helpful. I stand by what I posted. Even if HR is ok, the VO2Max numbers are only estimates. A lab test is required for an accurate VO2Max. There are many other methods to test fitness improvements.

Nigel Taylor 0

@eurohiker said in Vo2 max:

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in Vo2 max:

Firstbeat

Didn’t actually know that!

The other watches that have VO2 max, like TicWatch 3 pro, do not mention anything about firstbeat licensing which is why I didn’t know about it i guess.
Will Suunto 7 be getting this to stay competitive?

I saw you post something along the same lines requesting “estimated” to get around needing the licensing maybe?
link text

There’s a list of Firstbeat licensable features here (they used to have a selector where you could see which watches support which functions, but that seemed to disappear since Garmin took them over, for obvious reasons)

https://www.firstbeatanalytics.com/en/features/

Does Ticwatch Pro 3 really have Firstbeat Vo2Max, I never found mention of it when scanning their website and manuals ahead of opting for S7 ??
(although I just refer to the Runalyze interpretation of Vo2Max which seems to work for me in line with what I ‘feel’ when I look at the trend of average Vo2Max)