Sunnto 7 Sensor Support

Egika

@brotzfrog10 said in Sunnto 7 Sensor Support:

@pilleus thank you for the feedback on ghost racer. I just find it sad that sunnto is essentially forcing its customers to find third party work around for something that everyone of their other watches has built in natively. By not letting us use their wonderful workout platform they erode brand loyalty because if you aren’t going to use the sunnto built in software then what’s to keep the consumer from jumping to another brand being every WearOs watch can have access to the same third party apps. It’s honestly shockingly poor planning.

I wonder if you can get along with less use of over-excited adjectives.
While it is neither shockingly poor, nor sad, nor wonderful, it is a business case of Suunto, that they should understand better than externals.

I’d buy a Suunto for its excellent built quality, water proofing and design.
The app is mainly designed to transfer the data to the service you like, as there are many individual preferences when it comes to data analysis. Why not see it as an advantage to be able to choose the app you like for workouts? Ghostracer and Sportygo are valid alternatives to the Suunto app.

At the same time I agree with you, that it would do no harm to be able to switch to external sensors in the Suunto App. Still I see that priorities might be different atm.

brotzfrog10

@Egika I’m glad we at least partly agree haha. I still stand by my overall point. Even Apple who has by far the largest App Store maintains a high level of functionally with their watch workout app (sensor support, moderately customizable data fields) and they weren’t first and foremost a workout company like Suunto . Plus they still allow you to sync with most of the major online training platforms. That’s the real key as you said, having the choice to use whatever service you want but my quandary here is why would a company essentially have their own app lack basic training functionally, therefore in some way pushing consumers towards using another companies product or app? Don’t you want to keep a consumer as tied to your own platform as possible in order to create brand loyalty?

Egika

@brotzfrog10

keeping customers tied to a platform is maybe not so much depending on external sensors support, as we (forum users) tend to think.
While I myself see the big plus in winter sports, where the watch is not on the skin - the target audience for the S7 maybe does not really care.
The ones who do care still have the choice to go with the S5 or S9.

Anyway - this is now going in circles. Voting for this topic will maybe have the most influence normal users could have, to bring this forward.
Let’s keep our fingers crossed that it makes it on the road map.

Aleksander H

@brotzfrog10 said in Sunnto 7 Sensor Support:

@Egika I’m glad we at least partly agree haha. I still stand by my overall point. Even Apple who has by far the largest App Store maintains a high level of functionally with their watch workout app (sensor support, moderately customizable data fields) and they weren’t first and foremost a workout company like Suunto.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the development resources on the Apple Watch are greater than the whole of Suunto to be honest.

brotzfrog10

@Egika also to your priority point, I’m sure you’re right as it seems Suunto is really trying to enhance GPS and mapping support which I applaud. I’m not depending sensor support be added tomorrow. My concern is that from every interaction with someone connected to Suunto the idea of sensor support isn’t even on their roadmap. It’s even been dismissed in some cases as they feel the costumer buying a Suunto 7 isn’t really looking for that. That’s where I feel Suunto has miscalculated in terms of who their customer really is for this watch. I see who they want their customer to be for this watch (broader market less fitness data driven consumer) but I think it’s hard to be a fitness data driven company with a well known brand in the fitness wearable space and believe that your largest audience for your new product won’t be expecting a certain agree of functionality (like native sensor support).

I also think it’s reasonable to assume that the $100 price drop on the watch more recently reflects a difficultly to move units. I could be completely wrong but typically a company doesn’t drop the retail price on a product if it’s selling at or above expectation.

brotzfrog10

@Aleksander-H I agree with you 100%. However adding Bluetooth sensor support is a very basic feature that is already baked into googles own WearOs training app, google fit. No one is asking Suunto to keep up with apples development team and say integrate their watch with a streaming workout platform like Apple just did with Apple Fitness+. This is allowing Bluetooth sensors to connect to a training watch. Something that’s been done for what almost a decade now, and done by Suunto already.

brotzfrog10

@Egika I agree we would go around and around. I just think as I’ve mentioned before Suunto target audience for this watch isn’t who is actually buying the watch. It was mentioned early by those connected to Suunto that they were looking for the broader audience like what a Fitbit user might be. However a 50mm watch that doesn’t track sleep seems like a really tough sell to the general public just looking for a fitness watch. Think about all the work Suunto is putting into the mapping feature which is awesome to be sure. Your regular person just looking to move around and be healthy isn’t going to be importing GPX files and creating POI on a mapped out courses.

However we are in completely agreement that adding sensor support would make the product infinitely more functional and I’m definitely hoping they do it. Thank you for supporting the topic!

Jamie BG

@brotzfrog10 agree - especially considering that their wear os competitor models are at least £100 cheaper, and have more health features. Difficult to compete against that, if that is their target market.
The S7 isn’t a competitor to most wear os watches due to lack of “health features” and its significantly higher price. S7 only comes into consideration if the potential buyer wants decent fitness metrics and basic training metrics; otherwise it isn’t even a consideration. With a 20-30% price drop its sort of brings it closer to the high end of the most considered wear os watches and due to design/build quality it is considered.
So really I do think that Suunto has targeted this watch at completely the incorrect market or at wrong price point.
Fixing the gaps would enable them to own the full smartwatch with fitness watch market, and out compete the Apple Watch, the Garmin Vivoactive/ Venu rage, and help better justify the price when potential buyers are considering a better health specced wear os and or tizen watch.

brotzfrog10

@Jamie-BG I agree with you completely! I literally can’t think of a single thing to add to your post haha. I just hope in times Suunto sees it that way too. Just think of standout product Suunto would have on the market. What’s the knock against Apple watches (save for battery life)? It doesn’t have those high end fitness analytics that a serious athlete might want. What’s the knock against garmins? It doesn’t have the high end smart watch features that an iOS watch or WearOs watch has. The Suunto 7 could have been (and might still be) the watch to finally combine a true smart watch with a real training watch (yes I know battery life will still suck haha but hopefully updates to the WearOs platform and some kind of integration with Fitbit will help ease that concern as time moves on).

At least when it comes to battery life you can just recharge it. When it comes work workout data or smart watch functions you either have it with the watch or you don’t.

Brad_Olwin

@brotzfrog10 said in Sunnto 7 Sensor Support:

Plus they still allow you to sync with most of the major online training platforms. That’s the real key as you said, having the choice to use whatever service you want but my quandary here is why would a company essentially have their own app lack basic training functionally, therefore in some way pushing consumers towards using another companies product or app? Don’t you want to keep a consumer as tied to your own platform as possible in order to create brand loyalty?

The “they” you are referring to is Apple??? They allow syncing to one platform! Until this year is was only Nike and the Apple workout app, which is the only one that has an always on screen will sync with Training Peaks (but this was added only this year!) Third party apps are required to sync to the services one would want and it is a pain.

fazel

@brotzfrog10 @Jamie-BG I read an interesting take on Apple in a cycling computer review recently (though I cannot find it now). The gist of it was that all of the companies other than Garmin are (a) trying to pull users away from Garmin, and (b) attempting to hold off Apple who will eventually own the space.

I don’t think competing with Apple on features is a smart strategy. Battery life, robustness, orienteering and multisport features are differentiators Suunto can leverage. Apple will own the market for folks who want a smart watch that will also track workouts. They have a massive head start and the developer community is immense. Moreover, many apps (including RunGap mentioned here fairly often) will send workouts from Apple Health to wherever you’d like for more detailed analysis if that’s what you require.

That said, I find the 7 interesting and may purchase it in the near future. I agree the lack of peripheral support, specifically external HR monitors, is frustrating. To be honest, a lighter 9 Baro is more appealing (titanium rather than steel), as the 9 does everything I need.

isazi

@fazel said in Sunnto 7 Sensor Support:

@brotzfrog10 @Jamie-BG I read an interesting take on Apple in a cycling computer review recently (though I cannot find it now). The gist of it was that all of the companies other than Garmin are (a) trying to pull users away from Garmin, and (b) attempting to hold off Apple who will eventually own the space.

Apple is for Apple only, and there is a tremendous amount of Android phones in the world. If they will start supporting Android, they will probably kill WearOS.

fazel

@isazi true. I forgot - that’s the biggest limitation of the Apple Watch - you need an iPhone to use it. ~~Good~~ Great point.

brotzfrog10

@Brad_Olwin I have no idea what you’re taking about. Apple Heath syncs the data from your data to dozen of different services. All the big services sync to Apple health because they know it would be crazy not too.

Brad_Olwin

@brotzfrog10 So if I do a workout with an Apple Watch ( which I have) and record with the Apple workout app how do I sync to SA? Until this year I could not sync to Training Peaks but the sync to TP only works with the Apple workout app. If I want to use an app that has HR zones for example Work Outdoors, I cannot sync to Training Peaks, there is no way to do this without getting a file or using a third party app. None of the training analysis that I use sync to Apple Health. What big services sync to Apple Health and how do they sync?

Jamie BG

@Brad_Olwin That that to a degree ties in with what I have been saying - natively apple watch isn’t a fitness watch, but it is getting closer and closer. When it does (see premium subscription etc and recent changes they have made), fitness watches will not disappear but they are going to take a hit. However if the S7 (which is more compatiable across more platforms and has a better battery life than apple watch) can fill that gap that apple is moving towards and get in there first - they have a massive (and it is massive) opportunity to take share away from Garmin and Apple.
It really is a no brainer.

Due to S7 ability to be used on iPhone as well as android, I from that perspective put it ahead of apple watch (also due to its fitness suite which is while not fully comparable to Garmin and Suunto fitness watches - covers most of the bases, and could cover all with integrated training and external sensors).

fazel

@Brad_Olwin can’t HealthFit or RunGap do this?

Brad_Olwin

@Jamie-BG I seriously do not know what @brotzfrog10 is stating. Perhaps syncing to Apple Health. I used an Apple Watch for quite some time as part of testing. I love the smartwatch and hate the exercise implementation. Very difficult to get a lap button hit. I can get everything that the S7 provides but have to use several different apps. In the end, it just isn’t worth it for me. I’ll use my iPhone and not worry about a smartwatch.

fazel

@Brad_Olwin I tend to agree. My Apple Watch has been sitting on the charger for months.

Brad_Olwin

@fazel said in Sunnto 7 Sensor Support:

@Brad_Olwin can’t HealthFit or RunGap do this?

Yes and I used them, but my point was that it is not built in, you have to subscribe to RunGap. At any rate, won’t hijack this thread but the sensor support for AW does have tradeoffs, except HR belt support, that works well. Stryd is much more problematic.