So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@Prenj @lohtse well, you started stating that no company shutdowns their “perfectly working” service and easily proved to be wrong (I tell ya as I was being as fan of Google Reader or Google Play Music as you are of Movescount). That happens with online platforms if we like it or not, companies have their reasons to do that and limited resources. You may nag at every topic about this but nothing a mere customer can do if company has reasons to do shutdown.
Google is software based and there are far far more apps out there that are as good as or better than almost all their products so you can always find an alternative yet we have no better alternatives for the watch just a function reduce device with lots of additional services/site/apps we have to sign into got get some of the functions back… Yes you will argue about android phones etc… But google services are not tied in to hardware… where as suunto is a hardware company that sells them with a software platforms as part of the package. Very different
Ambit 3 Peak with HRM, Movescount on Samsung S6 Active,Android 7.1.2…Suunto app installed for test only…
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@pavel-samokha But neither of those companies required a large, up front, financial investment from the user!
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@Ennoch said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@pavel-samokha But neither of those companies required a large, up front, financial investment from the user!
Ooooooo forgot about that…
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
nothing a mere customer can do if company has reasons to do shutdown
There might be for those who bought their (affected) watches post-MC shutdown decision (or announcement, whichever is within guarantee-time). But probably most effectively done collectively so, not “a mere consumer”, indeed.
There’s a word for selling a product the vendor knows will soon fail to operate as specified (regardless of ex-/post-sale information provision) and that cannot be repaired or replaced with like (because the failure is of the vendor’s own making). I’m just not sure if the required working period is the same as the guarantee in each jurisdiction for this hybrid hardware/software/internet case.
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@Prenj @lohtse well, you started stating that no company shutdowns their “perfectly working” service and easily proved to be wrong (I tell ya as I was being as fan of Google Reader or Google Play Music as you are of Movescount). That happens with online platforms if we like it or not, companies have their reasons to do that and limited resources. You may nag at every topic about this but nothing a mere customer can do if company has reasons to do shutdown.
It’s one thing to kill old platform and offer a new one to your customers and entirely different when you decide that watches that you are CURRENTLY selling are too smart and the new platform will drastically reduce the feature set of this watches, while other currently sold watches of the same manufacturer get full support in new platform. So it’s not that people get just sentimental, they can’t let go the old platform because they loved it while the new platform offers better. The new platform is highly restricted for some watches and this is not due to hardware limitations but only because of management decision. It was decided that Ambit3 should be dumbed-down.
It’s one thing to stop supporting watches that stopped selling decade ago and entirely different thing to dumb down your current line of watches.
And it’s the undeniable fact that Suunto is the FIRST and ONLY manufacturer of sport watches that has ever done something like this!
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@lohtse said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
Google is software based and there are far far more apps out there that are as good as or better than almost all their products so you can always find an alternative yet we have no better alternatives for the watch just a function reduce device with lots of additional services/site/apps we have to sign into got get some of the functions back… Yes you will argue about android phones etc… But google services are not tied in to hardware… where as suunto is a hardware company that sells them with a software platforms as part of the package. Very different
Here you just trying to invent arguments to support your opinion. I bought Google Home device from Google (where google is manufacturer, not only software company) with Google Play Music support and now there is no more Google Play Music in it, the same goes on with WearOS-based watches. Both required upfront-financial-investments @Ennoch . And just to remind, Google has by far more resource than Suunto. But it still happens.
Of course, nothing would change your opinion, on the MC shutdown, but when you say “Show me a web service that this could not happen too” (which is true) regarding Garmin outage and then "Shutting down a perfectly good service and making people use something not suitable is not what you expect… " I can’t stand not showing you examples it happens all the time. And in even more brutal way. You may find any reasons why Suunto is different but all that just because you’re affected
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@lohtse said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
Google is software based and there are far far more apps out there that are as good as or better than almost all their products so you can always find an alternative yet we have no better alternatives for the watch just a function reduce device with lots of additional services/site/apps we have to sign into got get some of the functions back… Yes you will argue about android phones etc… But google services are not tied in to hardware… where as suunto is a hardware company that sells them with a software platforms as part of the package. Very different
Here you just trying to invent arguments to support your opinion. I bought Google Home device from Google (where google is manufacturer, not only software company) with Google Play Music support and now there is no more Google Play Music in it, the same goes on with WearOS-based watches. Both required upfront-financial-investments @Ennoch . And just to remind, Google has by far more resource than Suunto. But it still happens.
Of course, nothing would change your opinion, on the MC shutdown, but when you say “Show me a web service that this could not happen too” (which is true) regarding Garmin outage and then "Shutting down a perfectly good service and making people use something not suitable is not what you expect… " I can’t stand not showing you examples it happens all the time. And in even more brutal way. You may find any reasons why Suunto is different but all that just because you’re affected
But you can use many other music services if you wish… I have both nest and alexa platforms and have never used google music nor would I. But then I have read that in a coming update to nest(formally home) Youtube music will be supported which is the replacement for Google music. And as far as I can tell from online forums though there are issues… most are happy…
Ambit 3 Peak with HRM, Movescount on Samsung S6 Active,Android 7.1.2…Suunto app installed for test only…
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@lohtse said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@lohtse said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
Google is software based and there are far far more apps out there that are as good as or better than almost all their products so you can always find an alternative yet we have no better alternatives for the watch just a function reduce device with lots of additional services/site/apps we have to sign into got get some of the functions back… Yes you will argue about android phones etc… But google services are not tied in to hardware… where as suunto is a hardware company that sells them with a software platforms as part of the package. Very different
Here you just trying to invent arguments to support your opinion. I bought Google Home device from Google (where google is manufacturer, not only software company) with Google Play Music support and now there is no more Google Play Music in it, the same goes on with WearOS-based watches. Both required upfront-financial-investments @Ennoch . And just to remind, Google has by far more resource than Suunto. But it still happens.
Of course, nothing would change your opinion, on the MC shutdown, but when you say “Show me a web service that this could not happen too” (which is true) regarding Garmin outage and then "Shutting down a perfectly good service and making people use something not suitable is not what you expect… " I can’t stand not showing you examples it happens all the time. And in even more brutal way. You may find any reasons why Suunto is different but all that just because you’re affected
But you can use many other music services if you wish… I have both nest and alexa platforms and have never used google music nor would I. But then I have read that in a coming update to nest(formally home) Youtube music will be supported which is the replacement for Google music. And as far as I can tell from online forums though there are issues… most are happy…
This is not the case with Suunto app…You have lost one service with nest/home… we have lost data sync for ALL things, settings(unless use web for now) Mini apps/sync and so much more… Nest/home has not been dumbed down… Ambit/traverses have
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One more thing against Suunto’s politics:
It’s understandable that if MC and SA use different databases, back-end systems etc, the cost of continued operation/support is big, so discontinuation of MC as an activity/workout platform would be a reality some day, and Suunto correctly provided a migration from MC to SA for this. I know that lot of MC features/abilities are not present on SA, but at least Ambits/Spartans etc hold the capability of synchronizing via Bluetooth. But…
…all other features on MC/MC app, for example route loading via BT, watch customization via BT, custom apps, DO NOT NEED OR USE such a database and back-end service “horsepower”, thus not such a “tech debt”/cost.
So a proper transition would be either to strip the MC only from activity/workout sync capabilities and keep the rest, or “fresh” develop them to SA.
By keeping MC, but selectively stripping features that do not cost much, is clearly an intentional move to degrade a product. It’s cheating, it’s cheap politics.
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@lohtse But why Google “Shutting down a perfectly good Play Music service and making people use something not suitable is not what you expect…”?
“we have lost data sync for ALL things” - that’s not true, I can sync everything (routes, AGPS, sportmodes) with my Ambits by cable and workouts by bluetooth. Only things lost are mini-apps (I’m not using, and sure there are mostly people like me) and workout planning (Not using, as well).
So when you’re saying that your Ambits were dumbed down and my Google Home is not - that’s bullshit. Yes, things changed and affected you in some ways, but not dumbed down.
And yes, “But you can use many other
musicsport tracking services if you wish…” such as QS or RunalyzeOpinions expressed are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer
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@pavel-samokha I am more than happy too change but not at the cost of functions etc… I was looking forward to the Suunto app and all it promised, But none of that included the Ambit 3… Google Music to Youtube music is and evolution and one even I don’t buy into but it doesn’t effect devices to the point you loose features… You can after all use another service and lets not for get you get a free or premium service with google music/youtube music as you with all others and YOU can choose to go premium if you want… When we bought our watches we Bought PREMIUM from the start. So there for we should continue receiving premium for the life of the watches/sale of the watches… This is not the case… I want what I paid for not what Suunto thing we should have.
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
And yes, “But you can use many other music sport tracking services if you wish…” such as QS or Runalyze
This came as standard without having to use another service…Don’t for get we paid a premium price for our watches and movescount was part of the package to give functionality…
Ambit 3 Peak with HRM, Movescount on Samsung S6 Active,Android 7.1.2…Suunto app installed for test only…
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@lohtse said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
And yes, “But you can use many other music sport tracking services if you wish…” such as QS or Runalyze
This came as standard without having to use another service…Don’t for get we paid a premium price for our watches and movescount was part of the package to give functionality…
Google music came as a free service or premium service, or you could use Spotify etc, and their free or paid services…You had a choice…
When we bought our watches and even now to do any setting changes or syncing you HAVE to use Suunto app(or movescount) you DON’T get a choice
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@lohtse I think that’s exactly the issue with connected consumer electronics business the Suunto are in.
Nowadays when I’m buying a connected device I don’t expect it will be the same in 5 years, I expect new features to come in both on device and in cloud, but I also understand that support is not free for the manufacturer, that’s why so many companies (Stryd as latest example) are trying to move to subscription model. I think it’s naive to think if I bought a device for $400 years five years ago to insist the company should not touch a single function of it forever - I’m happy my device still alive and kicking. And working with new modern app.
Opinions expressed are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer
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@mlakis Apparently (if I got you right) “stripping down” MC iOS/Android is not free and may face technical issues. And even if done, guys on this thread would still be unhappy having two apps instead one.
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@lohtse I think that’s exactly the issue with connected consumer electronics business the Suunto are in.
Nowadays when I’m buying a connected device I don’t expect it will be the same in 5 years, I expect new features to come in both on device and in cloud, but I also understand that support is not free for the manufacturer, that’s why so many companies (Stryd as latest example) are trying to move to subscription model. I think it’s naive to think if I bought a device for $400 years five years ago to insist the company should not touch a single function of it forever - I’m happy my device still alive and kicking. And working with new modern app.
I am happy too hear you are ok with loosing functions etc on your watch…I am not happy loosing functions…
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
“we have lost data sync for ALL things” - that’s not true, I can sync everything (routes, AGPS, sportmodes) with my Ambits by cable and workouts by bluetooth. Only things lost are mini-apps (I’m not using, and sure there are mostly people like me) and workout planning (Not using, as well).
Huh… where to start? I can drive my car even without engine. It goes down the hill, but hey, it still goes right? I can fly the plane with just one engine, I can even land without any working engine. Ambit3 was sold with certain set of features which included at least:
- web platform - adjusting watch settings
- web platform - activity analysis
- web platform - drawing routes
(removed the altitude profile for route creation) - web platform - adding POI-s
- web platform - creating custom apps
- mobile app - changing settings without computer needed
- mobile app - basic activity analysis
- mobile app - syncing activities and GPS
- mobile app - syncing routes, settings and POI-s from web platform
- mobile app - creating complex intervals
I wouldn’t call this the same. Not by far! And just to be noted, again, Ambit3 is Suunto’s current model, not some watch that they stopped making and selling years ago! I bought my A3P 2 years ago. I’m not ever gonna buy a device from manufacturer that dumb their devices while still selling them! If it’s now considered normal now by Suunto to sell watches that have limited time for features than they should include this information in specs sheet. For example:
- Manufacturer reserves right to remove some or most of the features of your watch at any time
Or even better, why Suunto doesn’t go all the way to subscription/lease model for their watches. So when you decide that this watch needs to be thrown in the junk, you take your junk back and throw it yourself and send me your new and better model? Why are you taking my money up front and then screw me over?
- web platform - adjusting watch settings
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@Prenj nice list
I would correct it this way:
- web platform - activity analysis - possible using third-party services
- web platform - drawing routes - altitude profile doesn’t work due to Third-Party API from Mapbox was deprecated (that’s another reason why supporting cloud platform is not free)
Opinions expressed are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@Prenj nice list
I would correct it this way:
- web platform - activity analysis - possible using third-party services
- web platform - drawing routes - altitude profile doesn’t work due to Third-Party API from Mapbox was deprecated (that’s another reason why supporting cloud platform is not free)
STOP with the third party platforms…We had this all in one platform… So those of us that did not want or need third party services didn’t have to sign up for them… Then have to either use an app or another web platform!!!
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@pavel-samokha said in So, what are you going to do after Movescount closes?:
@Prenj nice list
I would correct it this way:
- web platform - activity analysis - possible using third-party services
- web platform - drawing routes - altitude profile doesn’t work due to Third-Party API from Mapbox was deprecated (that’s another reason why supporting cloud platform is not free)
First point - true, but still we lost a feature that was offered with the watch when we bought it and now we have to use third party services and share our private data with them. Many users don’t feel comfortable to do that. And there is no guarantee that those third party services will interpret data from our watches like Movescount did or that will remain free, furthermore, some require paid subscription for the full set of features, that we had in Movescount.
Second point - Forgive me for saying this but - I don’t care! You have this working with all other Suunto watches in Suunto app.
