Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?

in7ead

According to Suunto Movescount has its End of Life for Ambits at October 27th, 2020: https://www.suunto.com/en-gb/Content-pages/suuntos-digital-services/

Here is the Chart of the next steps concerning Ambit3:
https://www.suunto.com/en-gb/Support/faq-articles/transition/how-do-i-use-the-suunto-services-with-ambit3/

Can someone spell it out for me, what does this mean for my Ambit3 Peak?

What is possible, using the new Suntolink + Suunto App?
What is not possible anymore?

Brad_Olwin

@in7ead If you read the information on the links you provided it will tell you everything. Not worth simply repeating here. The EOL is for the Movescount App and for syncing exercises to MC. There is a lot possible for your A3P, many new partners in Suunto App. The only thing I am aware of that you lose is complex interval workouts that were available in Movescount App.

Prenj

I’d say the most important stuff we are about to lose are:

bluetooth syncing from movescount.com to watch
watch settings adjustment using mobile phone app
complex intervals

Ambits used to be advertised by Suunto as “Suunto connected family with Ambit3”. Guess what, your watch will after 27.10.2020 not be so connected anymore. As the matter of fact, bluetooth will only be used to sync activities to Suunto app, receive notifications and sync current GPS data file. For everything else you will need computer, cable and internet connection.

Remember that when you go out in the mountains. If you at some point choose to take a different path and you haven’t uploaded it to your watch, you will need computer, cable and internet connection to add a new route. You don’t carry those those to the mountain peaks? What kind of hiker/mountaineer are you?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@Prenj Ambits will loose also the functionality of analysis on MC

However, a little correction. The MC app is since quite some time out of the stores.

amasidlover

I still have questions…

Are Suunto planning to maintain both Suunto App and Movescount Web indefinitely - or is the plan to add Route/Settings for the Ambit series into the Suunto App in the long term?
Structured workouts aren’t mentioned at all (although someone commenting on DC Rainmaker’s article notes that they still get synced via Suunto Link even though they can only be created on the, soon to be deceased, Movescount App) - Is the implication that we’re losing those?
‘Suunto Apps’ (the ones that you could write for the Ambit series as custom data fields) also don’t seem to be mentioned - are they being removed? I can understand Suunto not wanting to add new functionality (structured workouts) to the ‘legacy’ movescount site, but don’t follow why they would remove stuff that is already there and takes negligible storage space (compared to ‘Moves’).

Also, none of the current line of Suunto watches fill all my needs so if anyone wants to make me an offer for my 30% code (usable once) then I’ll seriously consider it…

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@amasidlover the guy on the comment @margusl I suppose

amasidlover

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

@amasidlover the guy on the comment @margusl I suppose

sorry, I am probably being stupid, but I don’t follow which of my questions that is an answer to…

Prenj

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

@Prenj Ambits will loose also the functionality of analysis on MC

However, a little correction. The MC app is since quite some time out of the stores.

You are right. Analysis too. That was actually one of the best in the market, at least of those offered by watch manufacturers. You kind of filled the hole with your QS, so I could get over it, but those things I mentioned are lost completely and there is no workarounds…

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@amasidlover Sure no worries I was too prompt

Structured workouts aren’t mentioned at all (although someone commenting on DC Rainmaker’s article notes that they still get synced via Suunto Link even though they can only be created on the, soon to be deceased, Movescount App) - Is the implication that we’re losing those?

I think @margusl (who is also in our forums ) commented this

amasidlover

@amasidlover Also …
4. Now we’re getting all the partner connections is there a future plan for structured workouts to come from TrainingPeaks to the watches? That would make me incredibly happy (and would make me reconsider not buying a Suunto9).

margusl

@amasidlover said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

Structured workouts /…/

‘Suunto Apps’ /…/

Currently Suuntolink is happy to sync both workouts and apps to watches. It actually handles Workouts better compared to Moveslink2 as ML2 sync since I-don’t-know-when broke the Workout progress view. Manipulating the list of active workouts is also relatively easy, so for a tech savvy A3P users still having access to Movescount app, it absolutely makes sense to spend some extra time and craft bunch of those workouts, even if the number of active ones is limited. After manipulating the list of active Workouts through Movescount API, Suuntolink will update Workouts in the watch accordingly.

And it’s not even that difficult to create those Workouts without the Movescount app (app just sends workout structure as a JSON to Movescount backend service where it’s compiled into binary and stored; in Movescount Android app no attempt has been made to keep this format and structure in secret; proof-of-concept worked out almost fine the other day - modified an existing Workout without MC app and got it into my A3P with Suuntolink + lost all my 15 or so non-active sport modes from Movescount …).

As I see no more mentions of “We will no longer call it Movescount” and such, it seems that there are lot less resources left for all this than planned. And hopefully this means that at Suunto side they just go with a minimum program - will disable activity upload API and are not too eager to spend time and resources for taking down app builder interface and the part of Movescount backend that is responsible for compiling those app sources and workout structures into binary. But I guess we’ll just see.

amasidlover

@margusl Would you mind describing exactly how you “modified an existing Workout without MC app and got it into my A3P with Suuntolink” - I’m wondering if I can knock together a quick tool to translate FIT/MRC/ZWO files (exported from trainingPeaks) into Suunto’s JSON format…

margusl

@amasidlover , sure, but it takes some time - I need to clean my notes. But the default one looks like this:

{
  "name": "My Workout",
  "steps": [
    {
      "duration": {
        "durationName": "time",
        "value": 600
      },
      "target": {
        "targetName": "hr",
        "valueRange": {
          "max": 2.1666666666666665,
          "min": 2
        }
      },
      "text": "Easy jogging",
      "type": {
        "typeName": "warmup"
      }
    },
    {
      "type": {
        "typeName": "repeatStart",
        "value": 3
      }
    },
    {
      "duration": {
        "durationName": "distance",
        "value": 1000
      },
      "target": {
        "targetName": "pace",
        "valueRange": {
          "max": 0.25,
          "min": 0.27
        }
      },
      "text": "Run fast for 1km",
      "type": {
        "typeName": "interval"
      }
    },
    {
      "duration": {
        "durationName": "hr_below",
        "value": 2.1666666666666665
      },
      "target": {
        "targetName": "none",
        "valueRange": {
          "max": 0,
          "min": 0
        }
      },
      "text": "Walk to recover",
      "type": {
        "typeName": "recovery"
      }
    },
    {
      "type": {
        "typeName": "repeatEnd"
      }
    },
    {
      "duration": {
        "durationName": "time",
        "value": 600
      },
      "target": {
        "targetName": "hr",
        "valueRange": {
          "max": 1.8333333333333333,
          "min": 1.3333333333333333
        }
      },
      "text": "Walk to cool down",
      "type": {
        "typeName": "cooldown"
      }
    }
  ],
  "workoutDescription": "Basic running workout"
}

It’s just an object serialized as json, so instead of generating countless workouts in MC app to map everything manually, you probably want to get down to classes that are used for building that wokrout tree. So you probably end up poking a Movescount Android APK with something like jadx. That JSON above should give you a solid set of search terms. You should focus mostly on com.suunto.movescount.model* classes. Consturction of that sample workout could also be useful, you’ll find it in com.suunto.movescount.activity.WorkoutPlannerActivity .

Kuba Sarata

@in7ead thanks for the date. I felt that it was some kind of secret for a long time now.

Another thing we’re loosing are tags that will be not transferred to the new app.

Are Suunto planning to maintain both Suunto App and Movescount Web indefinitely - or is the plan to add Route/Settings for the Ambit series into the Suunto App in the long term?

This is a really interesting question and I’m really keen to get the answer to this one.

Also adding a new one:

If MC is staying as a viable tool for Ambits users, will all the annoying small bugs (like elevation on route planning or search bar) be fixed?

…none of the current line of Suunto watches fill all my needs…

I feel the same. When one doesn’t care about the colourful touch screen (I think it’s a disadvantage actually) and when you take out this feature the 9 Baro is still not better than Ambit 3 Peak

Cheers!

amasidlover

@margusl That’s great - is there then just a specific folder I put the resulting files in for SuuntoLink to recognise and transfer them?

margusl

@amasidlover , not quite, creating the Workout structure as json is just the first step, you then have to use Movescount service API in the same way as MC mobile app does - Workout structure is base64 encoded, stored in another json and sent over to Movescont backend service running somewhere in Amazon cloud. And thats the part that takes me some time and effort to document.

margusl

@Brad_Olwin said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

The only thing I am aware of that you lose is complex interval workouts that were available in Movescount App.

besides BT connectivity-related issues:

currently there’s no support for syncing power data from Ambits (Stryd / bike power meter, Running power with Stryd sensor is still present in specs, kind of valid as watch itself does display power)
currently HR zones can’t be adjusted
if apps remain, data collected by apps is not synced to Suunto App (Logging of app specific metrics is still present in specs, lot of bullet points in specs are actually implemented only through apps)
no EPOC / EPOC peak, est. VO2, respiration rate (EPOC & V02 max values is still present in specs)
no support for planned activities, incl. target intensities (MC calendar & training plans)
… and probably few more bits …

amasidlover

@margusl said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

currently there’s no support for syncing power data from Ambits (Stryd / bike power meter, Running power with Stryd sensor is still present in specs, kind of valid as watch itself does display power)

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos is this planned to be fixed before the 13th? This is a MAJOR blocker for my usage… I hadn’t realised it was the case…

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@amasidlover I think yes very soon

amasidlover

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

@amasidlover I think yes very soon

Good to know, thanks!