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    Heart rate values in Suunto App different than Strava or .fit file

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Suunto app - Questions & Feedback
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    • O Offline
      onthesummit
      last edited by

      I just upgraded to Suunto 9 Baro from my old Ambit3 and I found there are some inconsistencies between the heart rate data showed in the Suunto App and the one from Strava or the exported .fit file. Activities can be seen here: https://www.suunto.com/move/marcelilie/5f32f0405f7eea5d72ae0c34 vs https://www.strava.com/activities/3898940370

      The Strava graph is identical with the fit export. You can clearly see some irregularities in the data from Strava between 0:01:02 and 0:01:25 and a lot shorter ones at the end of the activity. However, in Suunto App, these irregularities are missing and the data shown there seems to be genuine and not simply a constant value or interpolated data.

      I am using a Polar H10 chest strap for heart rate. Also, I am using Stryd for pace, cadence, distance and power (in case it is relevant) and the power data from the fit file is very accurate.

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      • M Offline
        margusl
        last edited by margusl

        You didn’t use Suunto App with Ambit? Those spikes are just bad HR sensor readings due battery, bad contact, noise from statics from clothing or something else. It’s just something that happens with all belts from time to time. With Suunto App Suunto has decided to filter out those obvious anomalies for you, but I wouldn’t take it as a feature, it’s more like hiding an issue.

        When those errors are becoming more frequent, it’s usually a sign for you to clean your belt, change the battery, find a replacement belt or find a way to deal with statics. You’ll get way better overview of this if you use something that can plot individual IBI values (interbeat intervals, periods between every single heart beat), like Runalyze. Or something that provides fine control over HR smoothing, like Training Peaks.
        Few examples, recorded with A3P & H10, had problems at the start, but it somehow started working after 16 minutes:
        2e03dcf4-7f22-4326-bef0-73235f84a457-image.png
        Training Peaks, smoothing switched off, small variability after 16min mark is expected

        6d784bc3-49d0-491b-a9a8-cac7fdc745c2-image.png
        IBI values for that exact activity from Runalyze. Clear indication that HR for first the first part should just be discarded

        Screenshot_20200812-150141_Suunto.jpg
        Same activity in Suunto App, it’s trying to apply some filtering to noisy data. I’d prefer just a flat line or some indication that there’s something wrong with HR reading.

        And it was all just fine the day before. And it got a lot worse the day after. Belt is about 20 months old, battery maybe few months, and I’m using it about 30 … 50 hours per month.

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        • D Offline
          dombo Bronze Member
          last edited by

          I also noticed it. I think it is mainly because suunto’s smart HR belt, which is - let say - not the best. I personally switch to H10, because suunto belt was so unreliable. I think, that suunto not just filter data in suunto app, but also when live heart rate is displayed in watch. rapid change in heart rate during sharp intervals were not displayed correctly on watch for me, but was correctly exported to strava. strange way, how to hide unreliability of own products.

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          • O Offline
            onthesummit
            last edited by onthesummit

            I used the Ambit with Movescount and when I upgraded to 9 I switched to Suunto App. Today I made a test. Since the H10 can connect to 2 BLE receivers I recorded the run with both the 9 and the Ambit. Here is a comparison of the heart rate graph from the exported fit files from Suunto App (top) and Movescount (bottom).

            Screenshot (23).png

            The watch performed much better, but there was still an issue at the end. Even if the Ambit or Movescount does some sort of smoothing of data before export, it is clear that at the end there is some bad data in the 9/App version vs the Ambit/Movescount version. I believe there is a problem of communication between the watch and the chest sensor.

            Links to activities:
            https://www.suunto.com/move/marcelilie/5f36270723e16f537841ff80
            http://www.movescount.com/moves/move349951057

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            • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
              Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager
              last edited by

              When you record with the watch the watch only records ibi data and shows the deriving HR value.

              I am not sure if other apps do that via the 2nd channel.

              Later the ibi data are parsed and also sent to other services.

              Unfortunately, suunto app processes those different than other services do, and sometimes even when creating the HR values for other services (via the cloud)

              So in suunto app you might see a little better charts (or worse) and on other services a little different.

              Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
              Creator of Quantified-Self.io
              youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
              https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
              https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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              • O Offline
                onthesummit
                last edited by

                Another run, another failed recording of the hear rate data. I have checked the hrv field in the fit file and those values are wrong, those are not the values that the chest sensor is transmitting (since a different device is receiving different data from the same sensor at the same time and that data seems to match reality). There is an obvious failure in the connection between the chest sensor and the watch during the run that determines the watch to record bogus data.

                Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                  Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @onthesummit
                  last edited by

                  @onthesummit what do you mean with that?

                  What data is wrong?

                  😮

                  Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                  Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                  youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                  https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                  https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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                  • O Offline
                    onthesummit
                    last edited by

                    The values found in the hrv field (rr interval lengths) or the values found in the record.heart_rate (beats per minute) field in the fit file do not correspond to what the H10 sensor is recording or broadcasting and also they do not correspond to what the Suunto App is showing in the graphs. .
                    The visual hr graph in the Suunto App seems to be correct, but if you export a fit file from said app and try to plot the graph yourself you get a whole different graph full of errors. These errors can not be explained by simply saying that the app ignores some values, because if it were so, a whole chunk of that graph should be missing.
                    Here is the activity: https://www.suunto.com/move/marcelilie/5f38c7f1e8369b19a32663db . And here is the fit file exported from that activity from the Suunto App: Running_2020-08-16T07_05_23.fit There is no app in the world that could interpret the heart rate/hrv data from that file in such a way to obtain a graph like the one from the link.

                    Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @onthesummit
                      last edited by

                      @onthesummit mine does qs. You need filtering for ibi and specific algo to create and hr. I’ll give you back your activity processed.

                      Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                      Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                      youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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                      • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                        Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @onthesummit
                        last edited by Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

                        @onthesummit amCharts (50).png

                        Here is the HR compared to IBI. (From the FIT file you provided)

                        It all looks good.

                        Maybe you have some misunderstanding about the IBI / RR data ?

                        I also just directly converted the IBI to HR via my algo that works like :

                        private static getHRSamplesFromIBIData(activity: ActivityInterface, ibiData: number[]) {
                            // activity.ibiData = new IBIData(ibiData);
                            // @todo optimize
                            // Create a second IBIData so we can have filtering on those with keeping the original
                            const samples: any[] = [];
                            (new IBIData(ibiData))
                              .lowLimitBPMFilter()
                              .highLimitBPMFilter()
                              .movingMedianFilter()
                              .lowPassFilter()
                              .getAsBPM().forEach((value, key, map) => {
                                samples.push({
                                  TimeISO8601: (new Date(activity.startDate.getTime() + key)).toISOString(),
                                  HR: value / 60,
                                })
                            });
                            return samples;
                          }
                        

                        And here is the produce. A little different on the hard parts but I am not using what Suunto uses exactly.

                        amCharts (51).png

                        Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                        Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                        youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                        https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                        https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                        O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                        • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                          Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager
                          last edited by

                          Also just to be clear and help here.

                          IBI/RR is the ms between Heart Beats. (In short)

                          The instant HR from an RR is 60000/RR so for example a 1000ms time between heartbeats is 60bpm. 60000/1000 = 60

                          Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                          Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                          youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                          https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                          https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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                          • O Offline
                            onthesummit @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                            last edited by

                            @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Thanks for the thorough reply. I will try to implement the filters you are describing before calculating the beats per minute values. However, the problem that I initially suspected has sorted itself out after I unpaired and re-paired the sensor to the watch. In the last few runs the data from the fit file exported from the Suunto App was much more reliable.

                            Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                              Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @onthesummit
                              last edited by

                              @onthesummit I made a lib if you like:

                              https://github.com/sports-alliance/sports-lib

                              If you can use a bit of JS perhaps it can help looking at the IBI class etc.

                              Here to help

                              Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                              Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                              youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                              https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                              https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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