resources and stress level screen

nassosc

jannis

@sartoric said in resources and stress level screen:

@isazi said in resources and stress level screen:

Not sure if Garmin and Suunto use the exact same Firstbeat algorithms for this,

Should be

No, they don’t. The resources are on the Suunto watches clearly too low always, so they must have a different algorithm. I still have a vivoactive 4, and in the morning the body battery was 90-100 %. On suunto it seldom is more than 50%. About 2 pm I have mostly 0 %. So right now the resources are quite useless, as they have a big problem to measure periods of rest. Another problem is that with charging it again shows 50%. Really, these problems exist for long time, but Suunto somehow don’t solve them with Updates…

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@jannis typically this happens if the user has set the rest HR to min HR

sartoric

@jannis said in resources and stress level screen:

No, they don’t.

How do you know ?
I’m not saying that there isn’t something that is not working properly, I’m just saying that the algorithm should be the same as I don’t think that Firstbeat deliver different algo for different brands

https://www.firstbeat.com/en/consumer-feature/body-resources/

Algorithms do math based on data feed. If inputted data are different, so it will be the result.

QwertyBoy

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in resources and stress level screen:

@jannis typically this happens if the user has set the rest HR to min HR

So, how can I know my resting pulse?

@jannis I think @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos is partially right: how the rest HR in your vivoactive compares to a minimum HR registered throughout a day, or most likely during a night’s sleep?

Also consider additional three factors:

Your Vivoactive RHR gets updated daily based on your sleep and early morning heart rate; the RHR in your Suunto watch is set
Vivoactive is measuring HR continuously while S9 does only periodic measurements throughout the day
We don’t know much about HRV recording from Valencell sensor in S9, or how it is implemented; Garmin took quite some time to work this out. The foundation for Body Battery/Resources is daily stress, which is built on top of changes in HRV relative your baseline

So, the algorithm may be exactly the same, but implementation matters – from a very different sensor to a very different data series fed into algorithm to the bounds that are used to establish your baseline

@QwertyBoy You can try measuring it immediately upon waking up, assuming you don’t have to run to the bathroom Or provided you have a 24/7 HR graph from somewhere, your minimum HR during a waking period will be your RHR.

jannis

@NickK The Sunnto 5 says the average HR during sleep is about 63 bpm, and the Garmin Vivoactive says the rest HR is about 56.

@jannis Well, average HR isn’t a minimum/rest HR. One number doesn’t preclude the other in your case.

If you had a workout late at night, it would take several hours for your HR to settle down during sleep. So, your average may be high but your minimum could still be much lower. For example, my average was 45, and my minimum for the same night was 41. As measured by the same device. Vivoactive and Suunto 5 will have further differences simply because the latter isn’t measuring continuously.

jannis

On the Suunto 5 the options show the rest HR value as 60 bpm. To what should I change it then?

jannis

@NickK said in resources and stress level screen:

@jannis Well, average HR isn’t a minimum/rest HR. One number doesn’t preclude the other in your case.

If you had a workout late at night, it would take several hours for your HR to settle down during sleep. So, your average may be high but your minimum could still be much lower. For example, my average was 45, and my minimum for the same night was 41. As measured by the same device. Vivoactive and Suunto 5 will have further differences simply because the latter isn’t measuring continuously.

The minimum HR for today Suunto: 54 bpm
For the Vivoactive 4, the last time I measured was 50 bpm.

jannis

Resurces of today:

QwertyBoy

@NickK said in resources and stress level screen:

@QwertyBoy You can try measuring it immediately upon waking up, assuming you don’t have to run to the bathroom Or provided you have a 24/7 HR graph from somewhere, your minimum HR during a waking period will be your RHR.

But like Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said, that min HR is not the rest HR. So, it is incorrectly to specify the min HR. So, that’s why I want to know my rest HR.

sartoric

@QwertyBoy

Take a look at this

https://runalyze.com/glossary/resting-heart-rate

One method to measure it, is to check it just after you wake up, still laying in the bed.

@QwertyBoy Your rest HR will be fairly close to your minimum HR. In fact, there’s a school of thought that says your sleep minimum HR is your rest HR.

Search around in the forums… I had this exact argument with @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos about resources not getting to 100%, though in my case it was about 85-95%, so not too bad. I posted comparison of my minimum and rest HR. I know, I know… Everyone’s physiology’s different.

My larger point though: we are splitting hairs. Vivoactive, and other Garmin devices, has a very different OHR sensor from Suunto, has a different sampling rate, different handling of HRV estimation, and Garmin’s RHR isn’t fixed but changes from day to day and sometimes intraday. You can’t simply expect the same or even similar results under these circumstances.

@sartoric said in resources and stress level screen:

One method to measure it, is to check it just after you wake up, still laying on the bed.

That’s exactly what I told him. Bathroom run notwithstanding. Which is why I constantly croak about 24/7 HR. You don’t have to measure anything and can visit the throne room as much as you want. All HR events of note will be conveniently recorded and ready for review.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@QwertyBoy Hey lets start with this:

Min HR is the minumum HR you get during a day/night

Rest HR is the resting heartrate when “normal” there are no outside factors eg cafeine, stress etc.

Wake up in the morning then while making your coffee for example shit on a chair relax and measure your HR for 1-5mins. The AVG HR of those mins should be your rest HR.

Put that on the watch settings and come back with some feedback if you like.

My min HR is 52 during a day with a belt on, my rest hr is 62 and my night min HR is 46.

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in resources and stress level screen:

Wake up in the morning then while making your coffee for example shit on a chair

Freudian slip? I see my throne room analogy was taken to its logical conclusion

inkognito

@sartoric Yes, but if I define it like “hr when awake and at complete rest”, my resources will be close to 0 % most of the time

In my case:

minimum HR during sleep: 38 BPM
in the morning when at complete rest: ~ 48 BPM
right now - early evening, sitting, at complete rest, slightly sleepy: ~ 44 BPM
right now - sitting, typing this comment: ~ 48 - 52 BPM
one hour after long exhausting excercise: bigger than 60, slowly decreasing… when I reach lower than 50 I feel recovered

Many people take the minima, but I don’t think that’s right for the current algorithm. When I set my resting HR to 44 - 48, the resources calculated are unrealisticaly low. Doing easy tasks using computer, I can have slightly above 50 and feel like I am in fact resting and my body is recovering… So after many measurements and observations, I have set my resting HR to ~ 51. Everything bellow means I am really resting. Values more than few BPM above it mean I am not resting or I have not recovered yet… Setting this, the recovery calculation looks very realistic (I rarelly hit 0 % and only occasionally hit 100 % after very lazy evening followed by very long sleep )

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Well written! I should work on my brevity

@inkognito Fixing observations to fit a model? That works too I suppose. Explains why 70% of studies can’t be replicated…

After a while personally I stopped using both Suunto’s and Garmin’s implementations of body resources. The former never reaches 100%, drops too fast, and is wiped out by a watch reboot. The latter doesn’t reach 100% only when I’m half dead, lying with high fever, and my stress levels can be observed by steam coming out of my ears. It also sometimes misses hours post-workout where stress is highest.

If you want to track your recovery seriously, you’d have to look elsewhere. Or just go by the good ol’ feel.