sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family
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Yes, you can upload from the original Fenix because Garmin is still pretty much running on their original platform. Kudos to them for being able to evolve it. Not everybody can, because not everyone has Garmin’s resources. I’m fairly certain Suunto had some good reasons for deciding not to build on top of Movescount moving forward or for considering pulling a plug on older devices sync.
The best we can do is to voice our opinion as to what the critically important things are and what a satisfactory solution would be? If we were to distill pages and pages of flame wars for the most part it comes down to having a web interface, a web based repo for the routes that can be edited and pushed to the watch, POI in the routes, and then a few more smaller things like watch customization on the web… Everyone got their pet peeve there.
Most of these can be easily addressed by a facelift of the existing Sports-Tracker web site!
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@NickK
Device being old and not having all the pretty bells and whistles doesn’t mean it’s not perfectly usable anymore. Ambit3 for example was, and still is a great watch (still being sold by Suunto), and features even some functions not available in newer watches.
My usage scenario is mostly hiking and running and for this purpose Ambit3 is future proof! The battery life is great, GPS accuracy is still a standard for other watches, it has barometer, BT connectivity etc. It’s old (even if my A3P is still under warranty), but it should be up to me if and when I will decide to retire it. Not Suunto!
They are selling very expensive equipment and are doing their best to present them as durable, quality devices, used by professionals. How come then they are now taking the right to make the decision to effectively disable some devices by shutting down the whole platform for managing them and not giving users any real alternative. That is very mean and possible illegal in some countries and certainly very bad marketing for all possible future customers. When we bought our watches, we were not informed they had a limited lifespan and that it could become obsolete just by Suunto’s decision even if the hardware functions perfectly.
In my opinion, Suunto should provide an alternative software, available to run on user’s local computer, which would provide all or most core functionalities of older watches that they are not going to support anymore. As I said, they could even be obliged to do so in some countries or could be fined.
I hope that Suunto make this right, as this is really terrible PR. It’s just not OK to inform their customers that their expensive devices are going to be effectively bricked. It was Suunto who made watches so dependent on Movescount plafform and if they don’t want to maintain it anymore, they should come up with an alternative software and/or make it opensource. Otherwise what makes them different from crappy sport watches which cost 5 times less then Suunto’s. They could easily last about the same time. -
@Emir-Karisik said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
Device being old and not having all the pretty bells and whistles doesn’t mean it’s not perfectly usable anymore.
I think if you read closely what I’ve written, this is exactly what I said. I also said I’d surprised if Ambit3 doesn’t get a path forward being a relatively new device, with Bluetooth support.
As per Suunto shutting down the service… This is unfortunate. But these things happen fairly often in the brave new world of connected, Internet-enabled devices. Adidas killed SmartRun and miCoach after a few short years. Killed. As in took behind the barn and shot. After a couple of years. Boom! Boom! Like that. Mighty Microsoft, with enough cash in their pockets to buy entire countries, took down Kin, Zune, and Grove Music unceremoniously. Remember Amazon Phone? I’m sure a few poor souls do! Once upon a time Apple’s computers run on PowerPC, not Intel processors. I still remember conversations with a few unhappy owners who had perfectly working laptops that were no longer supported once the switch was over.
Why should Suunto be required to support everything until the last device of its kind croaks and a request to send flowers comes to Vantaa?
Ambit owners at least got many years to enjoy their watch. A sad nerdy teen who grabbed Microsoft Kin didn’t get even that!
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The problem with this is my and probably many other individuals are syncing with 3rd party phone apps! My S9 is not in your pie chart distribution as my upload is done by RunGap!
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Not good enough. Suunto’s core business is selling high quality, durable devices, mostly for professionals. That being said, we all paid couple of times more money than for other manufacturers devices, just because we trusted them they would last. I don’t care about Adidas, they will continue to sell shoes and clothes. What will happen with suunto if users lose this trust in them? Companies you named as example mostly left the business of these products. Is that suunto’s intention too? I don’t think so, but it might as well be the case whether they want it or not after this PR fiasco.
Suunto Race
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@Emir-Karisik good point in the conversation.
At least what I can learn here, as a person, from the many responses of type “my A2 works fine” is that the HW is more than fine as a product.
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@Brad_Olwin if your move is in movescount if will got an ID at upload so it would have been catched in this subset considering the limited {300}moves here analyzed during the two timeframes, not saying this is a comprehensive overview but an sample with a high enough sample size to show the distribution of devices
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@NickK said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
Why should Suunto be required to support everything until the last device
I couldn’t disagree more to such statement, particular an company advertising products “build to last”
what the heck is wrong in people spending their money way back for Ambit1/2/Quest/T3/T4/T6/M-series and D4i, D4i novo, D6i, D6i Novo, D9i, DX, Zoop, Zoop Novo, Vyper, Vyper Novo, Helo2, Vyper2 and Cobra2 because they like these products and trust in Suunto and intended to use them as long as they like without getting an artificial shortened product lifetime by deliberately shutting off essential background sync service (movescount.com is working fine and there is no technical need to switch it off) furthermore without getting offered an real or even any alternative … this is just utterly wrong not only for a long term corporate strategy but also from ethical and environmental point of view
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@Emir-Karisik said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
we all paid couple of times more money than for other manufacturers devices,
Eh, really? Because last time I checked here in the US, the most premium at the moment Suunto 9 Baro Titanium is running at a discount to the little no frills Fenix 5S Plus. Don’t even get me started on Fenix 5X Plus DLC, which would be more comparable materials and battery wise. The same is true of all new Suunto watches being it Spartan units (with full featured triathlon/multisport Trainers costing less than Vivoactive 3) or Suunto 3 Fitness that’s cheaper than most Fitbits.
Perhaps back in 2012 you paid a premium for something that was clearly a premium and unmatched feature wise product. But times changed. Fenix barely existed back then. Vivoactive didn’t exist back then. Apple Watch didn’t exist back then. Fitbit as a company was hardly a blip on everyone’s radars making dumb pedometers. This is an extremely fast moving and competitive industry that’s increasingly dominated by players who can either quickly innovate and iterate, compete on price, or possess certain unique competencies.
Watch longevity is no longer a defining feature, whether we like it or not as consumers.
Think 6-8 years life is bad? Fitbit owners replace their devices every 6-12 months because these are falling apart. Microsoft Band 2 fell apart after 3-4 months. Jawbone Up was 6-8 months affair. That’s your benchmark to judge quality consumers find acceptable. Unfortunately, watches of today are no longer your grandpa’s Swiss timepiece passed lovingly from generation to generation. “Built to last” doesn’t have to mean “built forever” but “built to survive whatever you throw at it until the next upgrade”.
You and I may not like it. But if anything, the numbers above proved Suunto will survive just fine with its new strategy, Ambit users spurned lover’s anger notwithstanding.
And if you think the life is better in Garmin garden because Forerunner 310XT can still sync, consider this: Garmin iterates their products every year, and a previous year’s model promptly stops receiving updates and new features. Which means your watch crashes, battery drain, occasional GPS weirdness, connectivity problems and many-many other things Garmin is famous for will be there for as long as your watch syncs. Which is forever. Enjoy!
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@Tobias-F said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
I couldn’t disagree more to such statement, particular an company advertising products “build to last”
Then honestly answer me this question: what would happen if Suunto commits to throwing limited and frankly already stretched resources at supporting products and services that are 10 years old and are used by a shrinking minority of users? While failing to allocate adequate manpower to new competitive products in an industry that’s dominated by short iteration cycles and constant technological innovation?
That’s right! Suunto will go out of business.
What do you think is going to happen to Movescount then?
You published a picture of a significant watch collection from Suunto. What would you prefer? To lose some of it or all of it?
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@NickK said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
products and services that are 10 years old
let’s stick to the facts a bit, Suunto Ambit2 is not 10 years old, launched in 2013 along the Ambit 2S, the Ambit 2R came 2014, the Suunto Ambit3 in 2015 and derivates followed, last major movescount.com update was probably 1- 1.5years ago? (not 100% sure about that) since running with very little updates/improvements, so if you are selling today an Ambit3 watch in Suunto’s webshop and tell the customer tomorrow it’s a big vague if we are fully supporting your watch next summer in my opinion that’s unacceptable, if you think an R&D release cycle as above and keeping units less as 5 years old in maintenance mode/in market support with limited stuffed R&D headcount (rather then full blown R&D from concepting to NPI towards ramp-up and mass production for a new device) stretches a company like Suunto to the limits for their existence then there might be something wrong in the resource allocation there, not sure about that …
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@Tobias-F Source?
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@Tobias-F said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
@NickK said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
products and services that are 10 years old
let’s stick to the facts a bit, and tell the customer tomorrow it’s a big vague if we are fully supporting your watch next summer in my opinion that’s unacceptable, t …
Yes, let’s stick to the facts, how about a year from next summer. There will be a lot of changes by then, perhaps your watch will be supported.
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@Brad_Olwin said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
perhaps your watch will be supported.
thanks for valuable comment Brad
emphasizes on “perhaps” , if you bought an Ambit3 yesterday and today Suunto tell you it “perhaps” will be supported beyond next summer it’s not only my opinion (beyond the many similar concerns form user here past days) that this is unacceptable furthermore in US and Europe an regulatory requirement by federal agencies and render illegal and against the law for consumer protection statutes and breach of the implied warranty, nothing legally left to debate or to discuss - full stop
good luck in tinkering with the law and starts discussion with federal agencies in multiple jurisdictions, think they will start laughing at you if you come with opening statement “perhaps we might fulfill our regulatory obligations …”
Suunto just lost an class action law suit for their dive computers in US about accuracy of dive pressure sensor (http://www.suuntodivecomputersettlement.com/), they didn’t go to an US court and fight in through, no - they settled and denied wrongdoing… so at least they understand what regulatory requirements mean, and by the way their layer didn’t start with “perhaps”
last comment: I would expect from a forum moderator a bit more customer emphasizes and being a voice for the effected and concerned user rather then defending the mess and opposing against a worried and voiced out customer here but probably this forum is not the right place for it…
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I, too, am interested how you obtained the website usage stats. As @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos, pointed out, the graph does not include stats for the App users, so we can’t infer user preferences.
Suunto has, no doubt, crunched the usage numbers, and (from what we can tell from the announcement) determined that it makes sense from a finance/resource standpoint to migrate to a smartphone-only platform. The company may very well be on the fence about scrapping the site entirely, which would explain the ambiguous wording in the service transition announcement. What I, and many of us hope, is that Suunto considers customer satisfaction to be an equally-worthwhile investment, even if website-only users are in the minority.
Other users have made an important point that Suunto also relies on selling new hardware to turn a profit. Hopefully, corporate has paid attention to the drawbacks of Apple’s planned obsolescence business model with decline in new iPhone purchases over time as smartphones became commodities and consumers were no longer willing to pay more for minimal upgrades. With this in mind, if Suunto was willing to invest fully in user-friendly software and their website, I would be fine with paying for non-standard features (e.g., the ability to store additional data in-app/onsite beyond some baseline amount/time, customized workout intervals, extra performance statistics).
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@Tobias-F said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
@Brad_Olwin said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
perhaps your watch will be supported.
thanks for valuable comment Brad
emphasizes on “perhaps” , if you bought an Ambit3 yesterday and today Suunto tell you it “perhaps” will be supported beyond next summer it’s not only my opinion (beyond the many similar concerns form user here past days) that this is unacceptable furthermore in US and Europe an regulatory requirement by federal agencies and render illegal and against the law for consumer protection statutes and breach of the implied warranty, nothing legally left to debate or to discuss - full stop
good luck in tinkering with the law and starts discussion with federal agencies in multiple jurisdictions, think they will start laughing at you if you come with opening statement “perhaps we might fulfill our regulatory obligations …”
Suunto just lost an class action law suit for their dive computers in US about accuracy of dive pressure sensor (http://www.suuntodivecomputersettlement.com/), they didn’t go to an US court and fight in through, no - they settled and denied wrongdoing… so at least they understand what regulatory requirements mean, and by the way their layer didn’t start with “perhaps”
last comment: I would expect from a forum moderator a bit more customer emphasizes and being a voice for the effected and concerned user rather then defending the mess and opposing against a worried and voiced out customer here but probably this forum is not the right place for it…
Even Though I am a moderator, I am no different than you. I do not work for Suunto and have no influence on what Suunto decides to do. I am not defending Suunto’s actions although I did go through this once before with the transition from Training Manager to MC. I have had a number of service requests with Suunto and have always been treated well by them. My old iPhone doesn’t work nearly as well as it should and was not going going to be compatible with iOS12 so I bought a new one. By the time the transition occurs all but the Ambit 3 will be much older than my iPhone…I did not threaten Apple with lawsuits nor did I post my displeasure or rant on social media. I just have a different outlook than you do.
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@Brad_Olwin
From my previous post
‘Suunto Official Store’ they’re selling the 3Peak HR for £389.00 and promoting ‘Route planning in Suunto Movescount.com’ knowing in a couple of years it’ll be defunct. Correct that to less than ‘a couple of years’
Not happy. Enough said. -
This post is deleted! -
@NickK said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
Once upon a time Apple’s computers run on PowerPC, not Intel processors. I still remember conversations with a few unhappy owners who had perfectly working laptops that were no longer supported once the switch was over.
The comparison to Apple changing processors doesn’t actually make sense. By changing processors it meant that current users couldn’t upgrade. What it didn’t do is remove any existing functionality from a product that they were still selling.
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@Brad_Olwin said in sample set movescount.com uploads Jan.15 by device family:
My old iPhone doesn’t work nearly as well as it should and was not going going to be compatible with iOS12 so I bought a new one. By the time the transition occurs all but the Ambit 3 will be much older than my iPhone…I did not threaten Apple with lawsuits nor did I post my displeasure or rant on social media. I just have a different outlook than you do.
I bet Apple weren’t selling phones that wouldn’t work with their new OS on their site though.
