Ambit2 - spell it out for me...


  • Platinum Member

    @André-Faria
    I also bought (a new) A3PS only in June and will keep it.
    I also upgraded to a nice S9B out of interest 😉


  • Bronze Member

    @TELE-HO what is your user experience with the two watches?


  • Platinum Member

    @KnutB
    you risk a long essay about pros and cons 😉
    but I try to make it short and highlight what’s important to me.
    In general, they are two different watches and while A3PS is a stable, reliable and tough watch, there are some things that need some love from Suunto team in the S9B. The S9B works reliable for me, don’t get me wrong:

    here’s what I see…
    phone/pc software:
    A3PS in combination with MC is convenient to use at the desktop, MC app is basically only good for spontaneous setup and else only to sync without a cable.
    On the other hand S9B, I would be quite disappointed to use it only in combo with my phone. I appreciate all functionality of SA without the desktop. I will mainly use it with the phone but want to have the opportunity to look at activities on a big screen. But there are still some (not a lot) things missing for me in SA like ascent summaries, crop and merge of activities and analyzing the parameters by selecting zones on x axis e. g. to analyze one specific ascent. (I hope this will come!)

    gps accuracy:
    it is not veeery important to me even I appreciate better accuracy when it’s there. A3PS is a bit better (where I have tested it). I did not test indeepth galileo or glonass effects. The fact that S9B is galileo and glonass ready is a big plus and I request to use the 3 systems individually without gps!
    In the S9 pros and cons thread I posted the result of a direct comparison of the watches recordings and noticed that S9B has a more nervouse recording. Might be better for faster activities. On slower activities it could be a disadvantage.

    display:
    I was a bit afraid of a color display, but it is very good to read on the S9B in a lot of angles, while the A3PS is slightley worse to read but good over a wider range of angles. In lowlight it’s still good to see.

    baro/ascent calculation:
    with my main activities the ascent calculation is pretty precise. during my comparison test on rollinglish terrain I noticed that S9B calculates less ascent meters than A3PS. Question here is: which one is right? Gut feeling: A3PS. But S9B might improve with a new FW update. And with my normal activities (one or two bigger climbs) this has a small effect.

    heartrate:
    I like the OHR alot even I did not think that I would ever use it. I mainly use the chest strap for better accuracy and less battery consumption. But for some activities I don’t want to wear the chest strap, eg hiking, and I live on the compromise that (for me and my watch wearing style) the results are not always perfect.
    A3PS is missing this feature of course.
    What I like even more is the zones ring on the outer ring of the screen with the indicator in every parameter screen that shows me in which of my HR zones I am at the moment. So I can see that even when I am in the ascent values screen…

    screens/parameters:
    up to 7 in S9B and 3 in A3PS… it reduces the pressing and fiddling on the watch during the activity.

    apps:
    I thought I would miss ambit apps… until now, I don’t miss them to be honest.
    My most important app was to change m/min ascent rate into m/h. But this can be selected by default in S9B

    battery:
    I bought the A3PS because of very good battery life. S9B is even better.

    wrist strap:
    A3PS gives me the impression with the screwed fixation it is indestructible. S9B with the quick release gives a less robust feeling… who knows, it’s just a feeling 😉

    In general I have a very good impression of S9B even there is room for improvement on small details for handling and some slightly bigger room for improvement on the gps accuracy and total ascent calculation for rolling terrain.
    I see more things that need to be solved on SA side. For me and for the moment it’s fine as some of the missing things can be done with Strava and Elevate extend… of course having everything out of one hand is much appreciated!

    sorry, it became a bit longer but I did not cover all topics… if you have any questions, just let me know. If you give me some time I can even test something between A3PS and S9B.

    IMG_20191028_222029.jpg

    edit:
    route planning and sync to the watch is very easy with the SA and S9B… who knows, in case A3PS will be completely supported with SA it will be a big step forward. You can go on a short weekend trip, without laptop, lookup some trails, do a quick planning on the phone, sync to the watch and start biking or running 👍


  • Bronze Member

    @Brad_Olwin perhaps a written commitment to support the Ambit 2 line would go some way to endear Suunto’s customer base. There needs to be a long term plan to support legacy devices, the software development doesn’t fund itself.

    Instead, they have thrown loyal legacy users under the bus with this, possibly to see the scale of the reaction before deciding whether they will bother with investment. Perhaps Suunto are hopeful third party apps will be developed which again will take Suunto off the financial hook in supporting the Ambit 2 and older models.

    If this is the case, Suunto should do the decent thing and open source the interface logic in order for the continued fully functional use of the ambit 2, T6C and such devices.

    Instead, Suunto naively expect their “loyal” customer base to upgrade with a corresponding pickup in sales. My other bet is, Suunto have designed obsolescence in their more modern devices, most probably through the battery life. This means that once bought into the ecosystem, you are committed to buy repeatedly. This of course does note affect the older devices which only required a recharge so often and actually could have their batteries changed without melting glue to deconstruct the device. I have replaced the battery on my 2R and the T6C battery was a user replaceable CR3032. Doesn’t lend itself to throwaway product life cycles does it.

    Suunto should be ashamed. They have gone from a serious product supplier to one whose customer support is now seemingly controlled by marketing and bean counters in head office.

    Hence the reason I will be returning my A3 Peak and slating Suunto to every club and military user of Suunto I can meet. Dont under estimate the power of your loyal user base to go viral on this and create real problems for Suunto.


  • Platinum Member

    @mbga9pgf said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:

    perhaps a written commitment to support the Ambit 2 line would go some way to endear Suunto’s customer base.

    you seem to search the forum and support page not good enough


  • Bronze Member

    Ive read it fine thanks… and seen there are suggestions of fobbing off support to external providers, with reduced functionality (unless you pay a subscription). Not sure how this is meeting the requirements of Suunto’s customer base, or engendering future loyalty to the brand.



  • Hi there,

    this topic got quite lengthy so I may not have read every single comment, but I think I have got the main message. I’ve also read the e-mails Suunto sends out regarding the transition.

    Now, I’ve been using an Ambit 2 since 2013 or so and got myself a Spartan (the model with Ambit-like GPS antenna and wrist HR) more recently. I’ve always synchronized using the cable that clamps the watch. Never used the app and I don’t own a compatible device for doing so. Of course with the used market littered with obsolete electronics it isn’t too hard to get hold of a compatible device to just perform the data transfer but to be honest, compared to a computer screen of at least 12" running Movescount, mapping a route on a 5" cellphone seems fiddly.

    Either way, going down that route it still appears like the data gathered with the Ambit 2 won’t be integrated with the data gathered with the Spartan. At least from the Suunto e-mails I understand that Ambit 2 data will be viewable on a web service (an evolution of the current Movescount) but it is said that this won’t be compatible with my Spartan (which will require an app for everything). Is this true or will both sets of training data always be integrated (as if I’m actually one single person who just happens to use two Suunto watches)?

    I admit owning and actively using two advanced watches (and not using an advanced phone to go with it) seems odd. But there is just stuff in both watches I like. Sure the Spartan is more sophisticated. Navigation is really nice, I like the way multisport works and for my commutes (which I’m tracking too as I’m usually hauling) it is nice to not have to wear a strap or a third party optical wrist sensor (like Mio Link or similar). But I’m not ready to let go of the Ambit 2 as I can program more advanced trainings like pyramid intervals etc. The Spartan only does intervals with equal length. As an alternative, is there a Suunto watch out that does everything the Ambit 2 does yet is compatible with the app (other than the Ambit 3)?

    Not sure whether this is the place to do feature requests, but ideally I’d call for keeping the web service compatible with all current watches. I currently synchronize the Spartan with a cable, would love to just keep doing so and see all my training data in that one spot.

    So yeah: TL;DR:

    • Will the new web service also show my Spartan training data and will the app also show the Ambit training data so that I can see all my training data in one place?

    • Is there a Suunto watch other than Ambit 3 that is compatible with the app service and still does everything the Ambit 2 does?

    • I’d love to see synchronization over the cable compatible with newer watches too. In my case, the Spartan in particular. After all, this was one of the reasons I got this one. That I could use that single cable with both watches. Would be sad to see that thrown overboard.

    Thank you for clearing things up!
    Vinay


  • Platinum Member

    @vinay
    the announcements leave quite some room for interpretation…
    I understand that it is going into the direction that you are favouring: sync both watches to SA thru cable with Suuntolink and setup in the evolved MC

    I think many users would buy this watch that you are asking for right away… there is no hybrid of ambit and spartan/s-line at the moment


  • Silver Members

    @vinay as I understood the newsletter, the Movescount platform will “evolve” … more like “devolve” in just the settings app for old non BT watches and all data and viewing/analyzing of data will be transferred to the mobile SuuntoApp (big “boo” from a lot of users).
    The cable sync will actually evolve into all device sync to the mobile SuuntoApp. So all devices will get an option to cable sync to the new mobile platform - that part I fully support.
    Now, about your problem with the mobile part of things … Suunto actually wants you to get a tablet or modern mobile device capable of running their app, they assume most people already have a smartphone and they also wrongfully assume most of their customers want more regular mainstream all day fitness tracking which in my opinion is downright stupid for an owner of a high-end robust multi sports watch.
    They are actually transforming their lineup into dumb glorified fitness trackers for regular people who want to feel extra with an expensive watch and don’t actually train that much or do it occasionally … but just to take an instagram picture and post it on their profile to get the likes.
    Damn I feel ranty today, but this is the message Suunto is sending us and I feel disappointed and let down. I am all for change and doing it better next time, but if doing it better for Suunto means using a goddamn phone to check my training data and do comparisons and progress analytics on a 4"-6" screen, I say screw that.


  • Bronze Member

    Sounds to me like Suunto are trying to cut overheads by not having to pay for user community activity data storage.

    As devices become more complex, they have more data to store per hour. I can’t imagine that maintaining that data for an indefinite period of time is something that suunto’s accounts department likes the sounds of (they will argue that’s what a paid subscription like Strava is for). It also smacks that Suunto don’t want to go to the expense of developing a multi-operating system fully featured desktop app, instead going for a more simple phone app.

    Which is great if you deluded yourselves and think your customer base is amateur enthusiast, instead of prosumer.


  • Gold Members

    @mbga9pgf said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:

    Sounds to me like Suunto are trying to cut overheads by not having to pay for user community activity data storage

    Everything you see in Suunto App is still stored in the cloud. Storage is fairly cheap actually.

    But, I can imagine, with the app caching everything, the processing cost on the server side should be lower, so the costs associated with hosting the cloud services should be lower, especially if we consider multiple updates per day of fitness data such as steps and calories.


  • Bronze Member

    My understanding of that very flawed communication from Suunto is that MC web will just remain as a watch setup only website, rather than a move analysis frontend.


  • Silver Members

    @mbga9pgf said in Ambit2 - spell it out for me...:

    Sounds to me like Suunto are trying to cut overheads by not having to pay for user community activity data storage.

    As devices become more complex, they have more data to store per hour. I can’t imagine that maintaining that data for an indefinite period of time is something that suunto’s accounts department likes the sounds of (they will argue that’s what a paid subscription like Strava is for). It also smacks that Suunto don’t want to go to the expense of developing a multi-operating system fully featured desktop app, instead going for a more simple phone app.

    Which is great if you deluded yourselves and think your customer base is amateur enthusiast, instead of prosumer.

    Then Suunto should pay for our Strava subscription, since we paid a premium for their watches because it HAD a great web platform.


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